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coachteater

State team race if format changes

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Just now, grappler-of-old said:

I honestly don't know how they will be able to accomplish all this.  

Maybe do first 7 weight classes in the morning and the rest in the afternoon. 

Do 3 rounds of consolation that will reduce number of participants for second day to 12 per weight class. 

Just spitballing here. 

I made that exact post to someone earlier. If you wrestle to the blood/money rounds first day, that leaves you with 12 kids remaining in each weight class on day two. Morning session 106-145, weigh ins at 7 and wrestle at 8. 2 Rounds of championships and 3 rounds of consi's. Afternoon round can be weighed in that morning at a separate gym for 152-285. Wrestling starts at 3 and ends around 9. 6 hours for each session. Next day there are 168 kids, 336 spectators for the kids, and maybe sprinkle in a few more fans. 

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10 minutes ago, grappler-of-old said:

I honestly don't know how they will be able to accomplish all this.  

Maybe do first 7 weight classes in the morning and the rest in the afternoon. 

Do 3 rounds of consolation that will reduce number of participants for second day to 12 per weight class. 

Just spitballing here. 

I think this idea would work. Do you think they would isolate the other half of the wrestlers somewhere? 

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Email is out now, here are what they are working with. Volleyball had a semi state this year, could we see that added to wrestling? Then you still have 4 move on past region. A semi state weekend could act as first rounds of state, but be held at 4 schools with  8 man bracket 

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I think if the coaches can come up with an idea that can be proposed to KHSAA that is supported by the coaches that might help get what we believe is best.  

Maybe come up with plans A, B, and C. 

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1 hour ago, ukpridewrestler11 said:

I made that exact post to someone earlier. If you wrestle to the blood/money rounds first day, that leaves you with 12 kids remaining in each weight class on day two. Morning session 106-145, weigh ins at 7 and wrestle at 8. 2 Rounds of championships and 3 rounds of consi's. Afternoon round can be weighed in that morning at a separate gym for 152-285. Wrestling starts at 3 and ends around 9. 6 hours for each session. Next day there are 168 kids, 336 spectators for the kids, and maybe sprinkle in a few more fans. 

That’s still over 500 people in a gym. Our school has a decent sized gym and capacity is limited to a little under 200 people including participants. Large regions and state will likely need to be held over several days, maybe even over two weeks if held in a high school gym because of attendance limits. Since it’s inside, the participants have to be included in the total count. Larger venues just aren’t willing to hold any events right now, so it’s almost certainly going to be in a gym.

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Create a semi state.   Top 4 from two regions wrestle for 4 spots.   Match regions up by # of entrants.   Region with the most wrestlers pairs up with the region that has the least competitors.  Host is whatever school has the largest facility.  So if region 1 has the most wrestlers and region 3 has the least (just as an example) then they create one semi state.   Then the 2nd biggest region and the second smallest region wrestle.   So on and so forth.   8 man brackets for semi state to get to a 16 man bracket at state.   The kids still get to be “state qualifiers”.  They still get the opportunity to advance.   Pairing the regions like that isn’t perfect but it seems like a good way of leveling the playing field.   Some kids would have an easier region but then a tougher semi state.    Others would be harder at regions but then face a thinner region at semi state.   
 

just a thought.   I

 

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Just now, LCalum said:

Create a semi state.   Top 4 from two regions wrestle for 4 spots.   Match regions up by # of entrants.   Region with the most wrestlers pairs up with the region that has the least competitors.  Host is whatever school has the largest facility.  So if region 1 has the most wrestlers and region 3 has the least (just as an example) then they create one semi state.   Then the 2nd biggest region and the second smallest region wrestle.   So on and so forth.   8 man brackets for semi state to get to a 16 man bracket at state.   The kids still get to be “state qualifiers”.  They still get the opportunity to advance.   Pairing the regions like that isn’t perfect but it seems like a good way of leveling the playing field.   Some kids would have an easier region but then a tougher semi state.    Others would be harder at regions but then face a thinner region at semi state.   
 

just a thought.   I

 

Semi state would be a 1 day tourney between region and state.   Best kids still make it to state.  You could wrestle a true 4th if you want.   

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If this is really only a 1 year thing to get to a stop gap,

couldn’t we use roster size and geographical location to “re-district” (only for the purpose of post season) so that each “district” has 8 man brackets, top 4 go to 1 of 4 regionals (also 8 man bracket) then the top 2 (or 4) go onto state?

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4 hours ago, LCalum said:

Create a semi state.   Top 4 from two regions wrestle for 4 spots.   Match regions up by # of entrants.   Region with the most wrestlers pairs up with the region that has the least competitors.  Host is whatever school has the largest facility.  So if region 1 has the most wrestlers and region 3 has the least (just as an example) then they create one semi state.   Then the 2nd biggest region and the second smallest region wrestle.   So on and so forth.   8 man brackets for semi state to get to a 16 man bracket at state.   The kids still get to be “state qualifiers”.  They still get the opportunity to advance.   Pairing the regions like that isn’t perfect but it seems like a good way of leveling the playing field.   Some kids would have an easier region but then a tougher semi state.    Others would be harder at regions but then face a thinner region at semi state.   
 

just a thought.   I

 

Think this could be the route they go, but region 1 would go against 2, 3 vs 4, 5 vs 6, 7 vs 8 in semi state. 

Top from region go to semi state, top 4 semi state go to state. 

I believe in khsaa eyes, "semi" state is still considered state. 

Volleyball did this as well this year I believe.  In place of normal 16 team state,  the had a 16 team semi state played at high schools. The 8 team state played at high school as well. 

This still qualifies 32 kids to state, which they want. And it will allow for spectators.  

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1 hour ago, coachteater said:

Think this could be the route they go, but region 1 would go against 2, 3 vs 4, 5 vs 6, 7 vs 8 in semi state. 

Top from region go to semi state, top 4 semi state go to state. 

I believe in khsaa eyes, "semi" state is still considered state. 

Volleyball did this as well this year I believe.  In place of normal 16 team state,  the had a 16 team semi state played at high schools. The 8 team state played at high school as well. 

This still qualifies 32 kids to state, which they want. And it will allow for spectators.  

Makes sense. May need to relax 5 match rule to 6 matches allowing for full placement without forfeiting for 16 man in one day. Could still place 8 at state finals. 

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I think a lot could be solved if we just found the right venue. Is it absolutely necessary that only 15% capacity is the limit? What’s the rationale between 15% and 25%? If they bumped the attendance allowances it would open the door for more venue options that would be more accommodative at a fraction of the horse park.


I believe the goal is to have a competitive state tournament with the right kids involved. Some regions could have 4 of the top 8 kids in the state, so eliminating half of them from the jump waters it down, in my opinion.

I’m definitely in favor of an additional pound allowance if state is going to be 5 weeks, or later, than normal.
 

If we want to limit participants in the state tournament, maybe Regions 1-4 and 5-8 wrestle with the top 8 qualifying for state. State would be a 16 man bracket. 

I hope we don’t create an unnecessary mess, especially waiting this far in the season.

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11 hours ago, GentleBeard said:

I think a lot could be solved if we just found the right venue. Is it absolutely necessary that only 15% capacity is the limit? What’s the rationale between 15% and 25%? If they bumped the attendance allowances it would open the door for more venue options that would be more accommodative at a fraction of the horse park.


I believe the goal is to have a competitive state tournament with the right kids involved. Some regions could have 4 of the top 8 kids in the state, so eliminating half of them from the jump waters it down, in my opinion.

I’m definitely in favor of an additional pound allowance if state is going to be 5 weeks, or later, than normal.
 

If we want to limit participants in the state tournament, maybe Regions 1-4 and 5-8 wrestle with the top 8 qualifying for state. State would be a 16 man bracket. 

I hope we don’t create an unnecessary mess, especially waiting this far in the season.

That would make the regional tournament way to big.  

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My comments to this idea is 

1. Can we find 2 venues for 2 days to hold the semi-states?

2. If we are going to use 2 weekends why not just have state on 2 consecutive weekends at one venue with light weights on day 1 heavy weights on day 2. 2nd weekend can run as normal in one day. 

That leads to another idea. State would could be 3 days.  Day 1 light weight (3 rounds of Championship) (4 rounds of Conso) Day 2 heavy weights (Same as day 1)

That leaves 8 wrestlers in each wt. class for the last day. (If you make it to day 3 you are a placer.) Only 4 rounds on the last day. 

Rd 1 Champ. Semi's (28 matches)

Rd 2 Consolation quarters (28 matches)

Rd 3 Consolation Semi's (28 matches)

Rd 4-A  Consolation placement round (42 matches)

Rd 4-B Finals. (14 matches)

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25 minutes ago, grappler-of-old said:

My comments to this idea is 

1. Can we find 2 venues for 2 days to hold the semi-states?

2. If we are going to use 2 weekends why not just have state on 2 consecutive weekends at one venue with light weights on day 1 heavy weights on day 2. 2nd weekend can run as normal in one day. 

That leads to another idea. State would could be 3 days.  Day 1 light weight (3 rounds of Championship) (4 rounds of Conso) Day 2 heavy weights (Same as day 1)

That leaves 8 wrestlers in each wt. class for the last day. (If you make it to day 3 you are a placer.) Only 4 rounds on the last day. 

Rd 1 Champ. Semi's (28 matches)

Rd 2 Consolation quarters (28 matches)

Rd 3 Consolation Semi's (28 matches)

Rd 4-A  Consolation placement round (42 matches)

Rd 4-B Finals. (14 matches)

That’s a great idea. I could go for three days of awesome wrestling. 

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I don’t see them letting it be 3 days but I like that thought. If not though the one before that with regions 1-4 and 5-8 (4 from each region) I like also but I would take top 16 not top 8 to make a 16 man at one day tourneys. 

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22 hours ago, Bearcat said:

Makes sense. May need to relax 5 match rule to 6 matches allowing for full placement without forfeiting for 16 man in one day. Could still place 8 at state finals. 

Suspending the 5 match rule would certainly help with the regional tournaments as well.  They could all be one day tournaments.  The KHSAA has dropped the ball with our post season.  I know we aren't a revenue sport for them, but they could at least pretend like they are putting some effort and forethought into it.  I know the regions are going to be realigned next year, but they should have realigned them this year and split them into districts.  20 teams at a regional tournament in a high school gym for two days during a pandemic is not a good idea.

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1 hour ago, Coach Burton said:

Suspending the 5 match rule would certainly help with the regional tournaments as well.  They could all be one day tournaments.  The KHSAA has dropped the ball with our post season.  I know we aren't a revenue sport for them, but they could at least pretend like they are putting some effort and forethought into it.  I know the regions are going to be realigned next year, but they should have realigned them this year and split them into districts.  20 teams at a regional tournament in a high school gym for two days during a pandemic is not a good idea.

Actually we are a HUGE revenue generator for them. Behind basketball tournaments,  we are probably the biggest money maker. Wrestling state is a great money maker and they definitely are trying to figure a way to get as many people there as possible,  cause makes them money

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I got a message from a wrestling parent who’s kid is very very highly ranked. “Make the semi states with two regions. Only 8 man brackets then the top 4 advance to state for 16 man brackets. Even region 7/8 combined would only have 8 man brackets so the large regional numbers wouldn’t matter when it came to semi state. Bring the best of the best to state.”

I agree with this sentiment. Since we are taking steps for special changes to make state happen during this pandemic. I see this as a logical step to take that can easily be made. Now finding a venue for state, I don’t have even the slightest clue. 

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4 hours ago, ukpridewrestler11 said:

I got a message from a wrestling parent who’s kid is very very highly ranked. “Make the semi states with two regions. Only 8 man brackets then the top 4 advance to state for 16 man brackets. Even region 7/8 combined would only have 8 man brackets so the large regional numbers wouldn’t matter when it came to semi state. Bring the best of the best to state.”

I agree with this sentiment. Since we are taking steps for special changes to make state happen during this pandemic. I see this as a logical step to take that can easily be made. Now finding a venue for state, I don’t have even the slightest clue. 

This is fairly simple. Regional events held as normal. Top 4 from each region move to a district tournament. 2 regions per district 1vs.2 and so on. This makes an 8 man bracket per weight class per district, with 4 districts advancing top 4 to state for a 16 man bracket at State tournament. This doesn't get 32 wrestlers per weight class to the state tournament.  But it does come very close to getting the correct 16 to the State tournament. With restrictions being what they are, 32 is not a realistic accomplishment. This adds 1 weekend to post season that is much more manageable. Just my 2 cents.

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20 minutes ago, CoachC said:

This is fairly simple. Regional events held as normal. Top 4 from each region move to a district tournament. 2 regions per district 1vs.2 and so on. This makes an 8 man bracket per weight class per district, with 4 districts advancing top 4 to state for a 16 man bracket at State tournament. This doesn't get 32 wrestlers per weight class to the state tournament.  But it does come very close to getting the correct 16 to the State tournament. With restrictions being what they are, 32 is not a realistic accomplishment. This adds 1 weekend to post season that is much more manageable. Just my 2 cents.

Think this is what may happen, but it will be called semi state.  "Semi state" to khsaa is considered "state" , so 32 qualify 

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My take...

All the posts so far are about format which is definitely good.  Ultimately the biggest discussion on here should be venue, since Horse Park is out.  That will drive everything else (number of wrestlers, spectators, travel, etc).

Also, the KHSAA will likely not want to add any more weeks to the season, especially for wrestling post season, since there is overlap for winter sports to the spring sports.  The focus will be about the basketball post season. 

Since the next BOD meeting in mid-February will set the wrestling post season format, they will want to keep the format as normal as possible but with reduced numbers of participants so it can be completed.  Unfortunately, that will mean some stud wrestlers around the state miss out on an opportunity to earn/become State champ, but then the regional and semi-state rounds become more exciting.

Again this is one person's opinion.

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47 minutes ago, rdc517 said:

My take...

All the posts so far are about format which is definitely good.  Ultimately the biggest discussion on here should be venue, since Horse Park is out.  That will drive everything else (number of wrestlers, spectators, travel, etc).

Also, the KHSAA will likely not want to add any more weeks to the season, especially for wrestling post season, since there is overlap for winter sports to the spring sports.  The focus will be about the basketball post season. 

Since the next BOD meeting in mid-February will set the wrestling post season format, they will want to keep the format as normal as possible but with reduced numbers of participants so it can be completed.  Unfortunately, that will mean some stud wrestlers around the state miss out on an opportunity to earn/become State champ, but then the regional and semi-state rounds become more exciting.

Again this is one person's opinion.

Host regionals a week earlier then or even during the week and then semi state on the original weekend of regionals. Most regionals are a one day affair (not all).

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What about Corbin Civic Center? Or the arena the middle school state tournament used last year? I bet they could get good deals on those venues without really changing the format of qualifying for state. 
 

I realize it’s not ideal, but nothing is this year.

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