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DrBaker

Youth State being only youth

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How about youth state only being for 2nd through 5th grade? Real brackets with a true champ? Leave the middle schoolers out of it? Thoughts?

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1 hour ago, KWR said:

What would be the point in separating it.  

I don't want it to be a separate event. I just hate that a 7th or 8th grader can lose Saturday and just come back and beat up on 5th graders on Sunday. 

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Long ago I proposed there be 2 youth state tournaments.  The first one, an open, just like it is now, Sunday after MS State, like always.

 

Then, take the top 4 (or 3) from each bracket, regroup them by age/weight, in an invite only event for a competitive State Championship.  Do it the weekend after HS state (gives you 2 weeks to prep, could probably do it in a large HS gym and save on cost, or worst case its a Saturday & Sunday event.  

 

Its do able.  

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The problem is the we are mixing Middle school with YOUTH Wrestling. The two should not even touch! USA wrestling has divisions and we should wrestle those.  I want to know how the money all plays in to it.  I know for a fact more kids participate in “Sunday” youth tournaments than middle school “Saturday” tournaments! Yet some how a TON of money gets spent on the middle school state and peanuts on youth state.  In Texas if you wrestled 1 match as a varsity in HS you were not allowed to wrestle at youth state, AND in order to wrestle youth state you had to at a MIN wrestle at 3 youth tournament to qualify for state.  I don’t know how you cannot participate in any!!!! Youth or middle school events and just show up for regionals and state!! You did not SUPPORT the origination all year but you will show up for the prizes? 

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5 hours ago, DrBaker said:

I don't want it to be a separate event. I just hate that a 7th or 8th grader can lose Saturday and just come back and beat up on 5th graders on Sunday. 

I’m confused by this logic. Aren’t the youth state brackets separated by age groups?  Hence, any 8th grader wrestling a 5th grader would be relatively close in age.  If that’s the case one of those kids is likely in the wrong grade.  
 

Youth wrestling has always paired kids up by age as close as they’ll ever be in any time of their lives competing. I really don’t see how that’s unfair. If a kid is able to wrestle up in the middle school ranks as a youth aged kid, why take away his/her opportunity to compete at youth state if they chose to?  I’ve never understood how that benefits anyone. 

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4 hours ago, plantmanky1 said:

Long ago I proposed there be 2 youth state tournaments.  The first one, an open, just like it is now, Sunday after MS State, like always.

 

Then, take the top 4 (or 3) from each bracket, regroup them by age/weight, in an invite only event for a competitive State Championship.  Do it the weekend after HS state (gives you 2 weeks to prep, could probably do it in a large HS gym and save on cost, or worst case its a Saturday & Sunday event.  

 

Its do able.  

Wouldn’t this just make the first tournament a qualifier? I’m not saying it’s a bad idea, but basically your proposal is creating an open regional tournament then a state tournament with qualifiers. I think it would be hard to call the first tournament a “state championship”. 

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13 hours ago, DrBaker said:

I don't want it to be a separate event. I just hate that a 7th or 8th grader can lose Saturday and just come back and beat up on 5th graders on Sunday. 

If that’s the case then we should change the rule at middle school that allows a kid that should be in High school at 15 1/2 but is still in the 8th grade, to beat up on an 11 year old Or a 13 year true 8 th grader

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Not sure what the problem is. 

KHSAA rules allow an athlete who is 18 years old before August 1st to participate in High School Athletics. IE.  If you turn 19 on or after August 1st you are eligible to participate. 

It stands to reason that if a kid is 14 years old before August 1st able to participate in Middle school IE. if you turn 15 on or after August 1st your eligible to participate middle school.

Not 100% sure what grade is allowed Youth but assuming 6th grade and below.

it stands to reason that if a kid is 12 years old before August 1st able to participate in Youth IE, if you turn 13 on or after August 1st your eligible to participate Youth. 

Seems simple to me, but i am just a senile old fart who has forgotten his own name now and again. :ph34r:

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10 hours ago, raidercoach said:

Wouldn’t this just make the first tournament a qualifier? I’m not saying it’s a bad idea, but basically your proposal is creating an open regional tournament then a state tournament with qualifiers. I think it would be hard to call the first tournament a “state championship”. 

In a sense yes it would be like a qualifier.  What you call the events is just verbiage.  Easy to call one State championships and the other KY USA Championship or the Raidercoach championship or (insert Sponsor) championship.  

My overall point, is you can accomplish both goals of participation, and competitive tournaments rather easily and have both events be good quality. 

 

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53 minutes ago, plantmanky1 said:

In a sense yes it would be like a qualifier.  What you call the events is just verbiage.  Easy to call one State championships and the other KY USA Championship or the Raidercoach championship or (insert Sponsor) championship.  

My overall point, is you can accomplish both goals of participation, and competitive tournaments rather easily and have both events be good quality. 

 

I think the state needs to maintain a single recognized youth state championship, so what it’s called does matter. A long time ago before the youth association was created, there were multiple so called “state championships” across the state which resulted in essentially having no real state championship.  

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49 minutes ago, raidercoach said:

I think the state needs to maintain a single recognized youth state championship, so what it’s called does matter. A long time ago before the youth association was created, there were multiple so called “state championships” across the state which resulted in essentially having no real state championship.  

I really dont disagree with you on that either.  Like in my example, one is State recognized and one is not officially, but still the event that many want.  Splitting hairs maybe a bit, but its doable.  

 

In the past we discussed 2 divisions at the youth State, open and competitive, maybe that get looks at again, who knows.  You know how this pendulum swings back and forth every few years.  

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I don't care about having a single youth state championship.  I don't care if 17 tournaments call themselves youth state.  It doesn't matter to the over all big picture of the sport other than kids getting mat time.  Ms and youth are two completely separate entities.  One has nothing to do with the other besides the fact  both fall under the KY USA Wrestling umbrella.  If organized ms wrestling was abolished, those kids would still be qualified to wrestle the appropriate age groups in youth.  MS wrestling is just a different league of club wrestling.  Its really no different than being on an AAU or NUWAY team.  Everything is determined by age and weight so grade really doesn't matter.  And lets be honest, youth state has evolved into what it is because it piggy backs on middle school state.  

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42 minutes ago, KWR said:

I don't care about having a single youth state championship.  I don't care if 17 tournaments call themselves youth state.  It doesn't matter to the over all big picture of the sport other than kids getting mat time.  Ms and youth are two completely separate entities.  One has nothing to do with the other besides the fact  both fall under the KY USA Wrestling umbrella.  If organized ms wrestling was abolished, those kids would still be qualified to wrestle the appropriate age groups in youth.  MS wrestling is just a different league of club wrestling.  Its really no different than being on an AAU or NUWAY team.  Everything is determined by age and weight so grade really doesn't matter.  And lets be honest, youth state has evolved into what it is because it piggy backs on middle school state.  

I agree that for an individual’s overall development, having a single state tournament probably doesn’t mean anything. However, it means a lot to the credibility of the state youth association.  It’s the one tournament where the state comes together and showcases kids from all over. Take away the allure of it being a “state championship” and you’ll end up with a bunch of small regional tournaments that accomplishes very little to get the best kids from all over the state to attend.  

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On 2/21/2020 at 1:36 PM, KWR said:

What would be the point in separating it.  

You would be able to make it a stand alone event. It would run on a Saturday rather than a Sunday, so no matter where it was loacated parents would have Sunday to recover. Instead of having 2 or 3 champions per weight class you could have one true champion. It should be K to 6th grade. Run it the first week of March like some wanted. You would get wrestlers from all over the State. For those of you who say "we would lose wrestlers to Spring Baseball, we already lose wrestlers to Junior Pro Basketball. Either way we are going to lose wrestlers to some sport, but we would gain many from Western Kentucky. Wrestlers who wrestle in both elementary and middle school would be able to participate in both tournaments, instead of choosing to stop wrestling halfway through middle school regionals. It just makes sense to seperate. The Middle School wouldn't need a huge stadium for its Championships. The biggest thing is the elementary would get their own Saturday to wrestle. Having one true champion would allow each weight class to wrestle on a full mat rather than a 1/4 or 1/2 mat. Of course this jm2c.

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I was at the TN State tournament and did not see the responses.... Naplesme hit the nail on the head. We need it to be split. Would be easier and save money in the long run from these stadiums. 

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I agree, I only went to two "youth tourneys" and that was enough.  Way to much pandemonium, know one knows what is going on where.  Don't like the Sunday idea day after middle school. Give it a Saturday set aside with set wt. classes.  I've heard several times kids saying they were youth state champion and others saying something like "yea you me and 100 others that year."

 

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