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Wkywrestler

Takeaways from state

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Are you talking region or regular season tourney.  I'm talking about regular season tourney. Hopefully at regular season tourney you have several different regions and a few out of state teams. 

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1 hour ago, grappler-of-old said:

I'm not 100% up on track but how would this make it easier to pre-seed?  Do you expect the person running the tourney to look up all the criteria? 

I have run several tourneys in my day.  Its easy to pre-seed.  Coaches send roster with records. Pre-seed according to record then go. Get changes when coaches show up adjust, take 20 minutes for coaches meeting then go. 

You have kids that wrestle terrible competition with 35-0, 40-1 records and kids from these other teams that actually challenge themselves out of state against top ranked competition with 4-5+ losses and will get seeded worse than those kids with nearly unblemished records. Darius Moore for example only had two in state losses, both to the state champ. He had several losses out of state and barely cracked the top 15 in rankings, whereas on rankwrestlers.com which uses trackwrestling to create their rankings, he was top 5 almost all season. He was a no-brainer for darkhorse. 

Tournaments ran on track like Mater Dei and Father Ryan's use track information for seeding. The seeds are automatically generated based on criteria points (record, at least so many matches recorded on track, previous years tournament results, previous state results, head to head). There is usually not much to change when the automatic seeds are released.

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36 minutes ago, ukpridewrestler11 said:

You have kids that wrestle terrible competition with 35-0, 40-1 records and kids from these other teams that actually challenge themselves out of state against top ranked competition with 4-5+ losses and will get seeded worse than those kids with nearly unblemished records. Darius Moore for example only had two in state losses, both to the state champ. He had several losses out of state and barely cracked the top 15 in rankings, whereas on rankwrestlers.com which uses trackwrestling to create their rankings, he was top 5 almost all season. He was a no-brainer for darkhorse. 

Tournaments ran on track like Mater Dei and Father Ryan's use track information for seeding. The seeds are automatically generated based on criteria points (record, at least so many matches recorded on track, previous years tournament results, previous state results, head to head). There is usually not much to change when the automatic seeds are released.

Ryan's seeding takes the Trackwrestling % and sometimes it is not accurate. 

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1 hour ago, grappler-of-old said:

I'm not 100% up on track but how would this make it easier to pre-seed?  Do you expect the person running the tourney to look up all the criteria? 

I have run several tourneys in my day.  Its easy to pre-seed.  Coaches send roster with records. Pre-seed according to record then go.

i've run several tournaments as well, and I have come to realize that coaches are unreliable when It comes to sending seeding information.  Also I hate seeding on record alone, especially when you have kids with seven victories over the same opponent eight weeks into the season.  If results had to be entered into a database then it would be available without relying on coaches....wins, losses, common opponents etc.  You could preseed very quickly and would only have to make adjustments if kids were dropped or added to weight classes.

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Just seems to me way to much is put on seeding during the regular season.  The whole season is just a warm up for the post season.  I'm not a big fan of complaining when my kid is not seeded higher than someone that maybe he should be.  Just go out there and beat whoever they put in front of you. Outdo your seed in the tourney and be done with it.  Its just a regular season tourney, the only tourneys that matter are region and state. 

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17 minutes ago, grappler-of-old said:

I'm not sure I would be opposed to running regular season tourneys like freestyle tourneys, random draw and go. 

Just talked to Coach Walls. He does have all the state details from 1964 and beyond. Also has some of 63 and 62 seasons. Reach out to him at Dennis Walls on Facebook. 

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On 2/24/2020 at 4:44 PM, grappler-of-old said:

Just seems to me way to much is put on seeding during the regular season.  The whole season is just a warm up for the post season.  I'm not a big fan of complaining when my kid is not seeded higher than someone that maybe he should be.  Just go out there and beat whoever they put in front of you. Outdo your seed in the tourney and be done with it.  Its just a regular season tourney, the only tourneys that matter are region and state. 

Well seeded tournaments usually have their best matches in the later rounds.  That's what you want to have exciting tournaments.  Exciting tournaments bring in good teams, lots of fans, and make lots of money.  That's how you build programs and grow the sport.  

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I'm all for separating the better wrestlers.  That way the best matches are in the semi and final rounds.  I just don't like trying to get pinpoint accuracy in the seeds.  Argueing about a 2nd or 3rd seed or 3rd of 4th seed is usually random anyway.  No one really knows who is the better wrestler that day.  

You usually just need last years post season placement and if an early tourney (1st 3 weeks) last years record, otherwise this years record, do the best you can and get the thing started.  What is worse is having a coaches meeting that takes 1 hour and delays the tournament.  I know coaches can be unreliable with getting in their records and such but that is usually not that common anymore.  

Getting a track account (an extra cost) for the day making sure wifi is accessible and hoping it doesn't crash is many times to much hassle. I do however like the boutboard if its in a couple of places out of the way of the fans view and big enough to see from far away so wrestlers don't crowd the area. 

But I'm still old school I like a bracket in my hand. I can't see the brackets on a phone, to small and have to move the frame around to see the whole bracket.  (I don't have a smart phone anyway).  :D

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State tourney should 100% be seeded. How is this even an argument? Best 2 kids meeting in the quarters? Adams vs Deck not under the lights in the finals? It needs to be seeded. 

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2 hours ago, DrBaker said:

State tourney should 100% be seeded. How is this even an argument? Best 2 kids meeting in the quarters? Adams vs Deck not under the lights in the finals? It needs to be seeded. 

Stuff like that happens EVERY year! 

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4 hours ago, pin2win said:

Stuff like that happens EVERY year! 

 

 

saying "it's always been that way" is a really poor excuse to not progress.  we can do better.  the sport deserves it, imo.

 

 

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12 minutes ago, CradleKY said:

 

 

saying "it's always been that way" is a really poor excuse to not progress.  we can do better.  the sport deserves it, imo.

 

 

Yes!!!! The 2nd best guy NOT making the finals happens way too much. 

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3 hours ago, CradleKY said:

 

 

saying "it's always been that way" is a really poor excuse to not progress.  we can do better.  the sport deserves it, imo.

 

 

My response wasn’t to justify the random draw, but to give more reasons to why we need to move away from it.

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13 hours ago, pin2win said:

My response wasn’t to justify the random draw, but to give more reasons to why we need to move away from it.

Sorry man I misunderstood your point.

 

 

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18 hours ago, grappler-of-old said:

Deck was a #2 from his region.  He would not have been seeded.  Bad argument. Your not going to seed a #2. 

I wonder if Deck would have wrestled his regional finals match if the state tournament was seeded?

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1 hour ago, Zeus said:

I wonder if Deck would have wrestled his regional finals match if the state tournament was seeded?

Not a chance. Deck’s health was the most important thing. Making sure he was rested and ready for the State Tournament. We knew the possibility of catching Adams before finals. We also knew whether we saw Adams early or saw him in the finals, we were going to see him and have to beat him. Adams is one tough customer and definitely brought the fight to Deck. Much respect to him. 

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On 2/26/2020 at 9:28 PM, grappler-of-old said:

Deck was a #2 from his region.  He would not have been seeded.  Bad argument. Your not going to seed a #2. 

Deck was #2 from his region because he forfeited the finals.  If you're not seeding on region placement alone he still gets seeded.

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