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LIONHEART

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I am the last moderator who has tried in vain to sensor what goes on between you two.  Your blatant attack on Austin was not by accident.  

Stephen is a true stand up individual who has done nothing to warren any attack by anyone. 

Austin had a couple bumps in the road (What kid hasn't) but is also a great individual who is not worthy of receiving the constant attacks you make on him. 

And for all intent purposes Papa is really not that bad in person.  Goes a lot crazy on message boards but in person is actually quite civil.  He may not choose his words carefully like we are unfortunately expected to in this day and age, but in many cases he will open up and help individuals when they need it.  He just becomes an attack dog when people talk negatively about his family. 

But like MaMa GOO taught me. "Sticks and stones my break my bones but names will never hurt you" 

I think Mama GOO was a lot wiser than I thought as a kid. 

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17 hours ago, grappler-of-old said:

I am the last moderator who has tried in vain to sensor what goes on between you two.  Your blatant attack on Austin was not by accident.  

Stephen is a true stand up individual who has done nothing to warren any attack by anyone. 

Austin had a couple bumps in the road (What kid hasn't) but is also a great individual who is not worthy of receiving the constant attacks you make on him. 

And for all intent purposes Papa is really not that bad in person.  Goes a lot crazy on message boards but in person is actually quite civil.  He may not choose his words carefully like we are unfortunately expected to in this day and age, but in many cases he will open up and help individuals when they need it.  He just becomes an attack dog when people talk negatively about his family. 

But like MaMa GOO taught me. "Sticks and stones my break my bones but names will never hurt you" 

I think Mama GOO was a lot wiser than I thought as a kid. 

I agree with this. I simply counter his outlandish claims hes been making for years. I agree. Both are very good kids and great wrestlers. Simply not the best ever or as good as massive claims. They were great Ky wrestlers and austin was the best 220 ky all time.

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So allow him his hype. 

He like all of us, is allowed to have an opinion.  You don't have to agree, but you should respect his opinion. 

I honestly don't know who is the best, I believe it is too hard to compare generations let alone wt. classes.  The newer generation will always have advantages that the earlier generation did not have, and wt. classes are different depending on competition.  Then you have the argument of people leaving a wt. class because of an indivdual or two.  So it's very hard to compare. I just enjoy watching them all compete. 

I would also think that Lionhart should adhere to this also.  If you don't agree with someone else's opinion, you don't have to resort to derogatory remarks. Just let them roll off your back and move forward.  

Unfortunately today any reference to a group of people or person will trigger a politically incorrect response. (hence the Auschwitz comment)  I'm old school and don't find name calling harmful to me or others but that is just me.  Ya want to call my wife ugly or my kids dumb, or say my family has weak genes, that's your opinion and I nor they really care what you think. 

But what do I know take a look at my picture above, how smart or handsome can I really be. Me and George twins separated at birth. lol. 

 

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So we are in agreement.  Austin, Sean, and Stephen (I put them alphabetically) are all great kids (yes I know they are not kids anymore but they will always be to an old fart like me), and they are all great wrestlers. 

I have been fortunate to know all three and am a better person for it. Not to mention the hundreds of other wrestlers that I have known who have also enhanced my growth as a person. 

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I agree this most of this. I must be one of the snowflakes that think the starvation,  torture and murder of 6 millions Jews as not being funny.

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I for one did not see a joke about it.  He just made a comparison. No joke. 

Thats where the snowflake comment comes in.  Any mention of something seems to hurt someones feelings.  

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Funny trying to take the high road after your initial derogatory comments about Austin ...and I dont see how it's so hard to compare past with present ....the main difference is that some kids dare to be great or their parents actually took them to compete at national level events ..and the tournaments used today and for many years have always been the determining factors for every state and the nation ..tournaments like Iron Man Powerade NHSCA  nationals and most of all FARGO nationals ...Nhsca nationals and Fargo have been around for many many years .. if someone from the past did not go then that is on them either their fears or lack of motivation not on those who did and achieved Reuschell went and placed years back Austin went and won and won and won beating another 3 x champion and multi x state champ on the way ...facing not only the best 220 in the nation there and at Fargo but losing by 1 to the best heavy in the nation who beat the Ohio hvy champ that yr and tournament by tech and pin..You can say his class was weak I can say others classes were weak in state and in ky ...and use facts to buff up either side ... but to down a kid who was a youth nat champ a jr high nat champ a Ohio jr higj ow winner and a 4 x state champ who went 189 and 0 is ridiculous and And for a kid who isn't even 5 10 to battle and make nationals as a hvy is pretty impressive beating the #1 seed in his league to do it ..hardly a failure .as I always say compare titles placings and win losses of you want to compare or down someone ...I just watched a freshman Austinn wrestling up  beat a Galen Robinson at team nationals for team Ky that's a freshman state champ who beat a returning sr state champ beating a soon to be multi x Indiana state champ ranked in the nation.Some of you have very short memories ,look in the record books from Fargo you see a cadet aa one year and a double cadet aa the next for Stephen along with an undefeated Ohio state title .look at the records again you see Ky first ever double and first ever Greco AA from a 220 lb Austin Myers and the next yr after going lifetime 220 bumping up to go hvy an AAing again while a guy he beat easily won at 220 ..Nhsca wrestler of the year and flo champ not long before ...so if I say he was the best ky High School wrestler ever it's a bit more than my opinion it's based in fact after fact ..look on those record boards at CC theres only one 3 x and 4 x Champ and it's funny you say his class is weak one minute then bring up the success of some he beat the other to try and down him ....he went up in weight not down he battled in the toughest college div and weight class to say otherwise is a joke ...no one else from the other classes could battle guys like Snyder Kroells and the rest ....college careers are one thing but knocking the past and what got them there is funny ....I see 1 div 1 heavy from ky doing anything I saw a few ky high schoolers doing some stuff nationally but never any 2 like Stephen and Austin....sr nationals Stephen walked out his last day couldnt even raise his left arm at all due to an injury and won a match ,A jr nat placer a sr nat placer a 2 x undefeatee state champ an iron man placer a powerade placer a Fargo aa and a Fargo double aa Cincys first ever jr high ow winner a Tulsa placer and the only kid in history to place and win a grade school title and place at jr high state in Ohio on the same weekend ...and yes he easily won a ky state title and nearly did two after only bumping up 2 weeks before ...his coaches blunder not mine I argued the late move but hey I'm not a coach right...lol.   let's face it everyone had it out for them wanted to see them fail had to see Stephen wrestle the toughest kid in ky Kevin cooper he did beat him then they had to see it again he did beat him worse ...not my doing his coaches I would never wait until a couple weeks and bump someone up it takes more than that to be your best French had an easy go at a depleted Stephen..and of course he was nowhere to be seen at nationals but Stephen was and again CCs first ever sr AA. And oh btw a little know fact he led CCs football team in ypc as well ...both boys only missed one yr of football their whole lives ...Nice seeing Stephen coach Moeller now where he was voted their outstanding wrestler as a Freshman hard to do their particularly with a sr Pierce Harger on the team but with 14 to 1 wins over ky state champ Tj Reuschell and wins over Joey DANCE, ANthony Collica ,Marcus Scheidell ,and many others that yr who could deny him ....As. freshman he did more than any other Ky wrestler in history in tournament placings and nat level wins ever did in any year except his brother .Tj who easily beat Fausz fell to Stephen easily  Joey Dance who beat Brock also fell to Stephen in High school as he did in jr high.Collica also lost to Stephen again in HS as he did in jr High .To bring up Austin isn't fair its disgraceful no coach or kid who saw him or can read his record from ky would be dumb enough to challengege him Stephen's record may not look as good but is still heads above anyone elses in ky ...I saw Fausz get teched his sr yr by a freshman saw him pinned as well saw Brock get scored on his sr yr in ky Stephen never got teched in HS ever and  was never on his back his whole Jr sr soph or fr seasons in season ....CC best ever in High School is a battle between brothers and well those last Rings they all won were handed to them by a kid who was forced to wrestle up and wasnt allowed on the mat until regionals And still banged out 4 pins and a tech on a kid who would be a state champ the next yr ...Stephen handed cc a state title and they crapped on him ...pathetic.

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I agree Stephan was very talented and wrestled and beat a  bunch of studs( guys who were good beyond highschool)  It's too bad what happened to him his senior year and beyond. Hes a solid number 2 all time from CC. 

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It would depend on what you mean by the greatest.  The greatest accomplished or the best wrestler.  When I think about best wrestler I think who would win in a match. 

My question would be who is better a kid, one who places top four 5 years at the state tourney. but does not win a title. Or a kid who goes undefeated his senior year and wins state?  

I don't know myself.  Just because a kid did not compete in national level tourneys does not mean that he wasn't the best, just means he didn't compete. Be it not willing to, not knowing about the competition or family was not willing to spend their assets on it.  

When I say past I mean 15-20 years ago.  One advantage wrestlers have today is the internet.  They have unlimited access to knowledge of where and when tournaments are.  I Know in my stone age I had no idea about national tourneys it was hard enough to find tournaments period in the summer. The only way you knew about them was word of mouth.  

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Well using your criteria goo of state or national level who do you think would be the best....if it went by just record and big wins during regular season...189 and 0 with a fr win over a returning state sr champ ...Austin....who never gave up a single td to any ky wrestler in khsaa HS event.as for rank and  name wins Stephen ..has in season. Wins on Reuschell,Dance ,French,Keener ,Cooper ,Jones ,Scheidell,Collica ,and many more .2 undefeated seasons 1 in Ky 1 in Ohio and only 2 losses in both states at state tournament both to champ both by 1 point.....out of season it's a no Brainer 3 Fargo plaques a piece for Stephen and Austin double ows at central regionals for Austin AA at 220 and heavy.Folkstyle jr and sr AAs for Stephen at NHSCAs CC first ever sr AA .4 for Austin CC and KY first ever OW winner 2 x OW winner and Only NHSCA wrestler of the year ."Look up that group"SR YEAR Dapper Dan at hvy,Flo 220 champ and NHSCA champ in less than one week.Missouri border wars champ 220 ,and Fargo AA at hvy .you didnt see a run like that in one off season. From anyone in ky or anywhere else period .Its a useless debate I state wins and losses in season or out and everyone else produces nothing to compare because there is no close comparisons ..not only in CC but in ky and while Austin wasnt a 5 time ky placer lol it would not have been a question He was an Ohio jr High ow winner his 8th grade yr ...just like his brother ...the first and only kids from Cincy to win that award..as for the excuse of internet now and whatever lol I didnt use the internet to find any national tournaments my kids ever did ..if you beat everyone in your state 20 yrs ago but didnt compete outside that's great but dont pretend kids coaches and parents were so dumb as to not know of outside tournaments ..that's ridiculous. IF YOU DONT LIKE THE COMPARRISONS BECAUSE YOUR PALS OR GUYS FROM YOUR ERA ARENT TOP DOGS THATS OKAY JUST SAY IT BUT DONT ACT LIKE NO ONE KNEW ABOUT FARGO OR NHSCAs 20 yrs ago...that makes people from ky sound like the stereotype we all know is not true.How many years has say a coach Bankamper been at CC I'm sure he knew about Fargo and NHSCAs way back and I'm sure many others did as well..As for college Kyle Reuchell has done the best easily I think and Reed has stepped up NAIA very impressive .Of course Fausz jas done very well even without AAing and while some blast Austin he has a winning record and is a nat Qualifier at D1 heavy and was a freshman NCAA hvy freshman of the year.Not bad for a kid under 5 10 who was a 4 x 220 .When you go to bash him for his college run be sure and name the list of D1 starters at hvy from ky who ever wrestled for a top 5 team in the Country.From the age of 6 when he won his first state title to now he has no equals ever from ky .And he was born here like his brother lol .

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Aww nobody in my Era is even close to being the top dog.  Like I tell people we were just mean neanderthals. We were mean and nasty and in great shape that's why we won, not because we were great wrestlers. We just beat them up until the 3rd period and then pinned them.  If that didn't happen then we probably would not win the match. I knew about Fargo wanted to go but to far to drive myself, and ma and pa wouldn't take me.   (Would have got my but handed to me, but I just loved wrestling.) Not sure if NHSCA existed 35 years ago. 

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GOO not sure what year NHSCA began, but I believe it was rolling for seniors only (senior nationals) in the early ‘90s, with some strict qualification criteria. Senior nationals along with Fargo have been the standards to measure over time. 

NHSCA (va beach) is a great event with a lot of tough competition. Was extremely proud to see my boy make the podium 4 times and the finals as a senior. But Austin pretty much owned the VA beach convention center. 

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Yes I do remember in the 90's about NHSCA, I believe you had to be a senior with a state title under your belt, or something like that. Must be why I didn't know about it, I would not have qualified. :D  But that is still AFTER my time lol. 

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I would have loved to wrestle in a national event.  I loved wrestling so much that I even enjoyed when I got pummeling from someone much better than me.  Does that make me a masochist, or just stupid, or both? LOL. :ph34r:

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18 hours ago, grappler-of-old said:

I would have loved to wrestle in a national event.  I loved wrestling so much that I even enjoyed when I got pummeling from someone much better than me.  Does that make me a masochist, or just stupid, or both? LOL. :ph34r:

Well, not stupid.. You used the word masochist correctly. :)

 

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No one is arguing that they weren't very talented Ky high school wrestlers.  When you talk best all time it doenst stop at highschool and this is the college forum.

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Lol then why wildcat do you constantly say so and so was the best wrestler ever at CC hahahah or best Ky HS wrestler ever ???you say one thing then change to another .And yes it's a college forum about ky wrestlers so if someone says somebody was a schools best wrestler and the whole world knows its bs well then you should expect to get corrected...just like if I ever saw you in person and you had balls enough to admit who you were ...you would get corrected ..simple as that..and well it is a College wrestling forum ...I have two national qualifiers at home ...I'm feeling pretty good about MY work as a parent ..you know kids winning stuff all over the country since grade school college and all lol seeing your kids names on banners at schools in multiple states ..pretty awesome..and Austin pretty much owned va beach yes he avenged his only loss there big time ..but you know where he really owned it...All Tech ...it should be renamed ATM arena ..9 second pin in a semis wow hahaha or should I say he owned all of KY ....Did not give up one single TD in any KHSAA event in 4 years ...OMG top that Bro hahahahahah.a freshman 220 who didnt give up a single TD or should a say a freshman 220 who certified for 189 but was forced to go 220 by khsaa all good like I said back then to all the whankers and schemers it didnt matter what weight they made them go or how long they kept them off the mat they would win period ....because well ....I'm a better f# coach and trainer than anyone they would be facing had that's right...facts are facts hahahahah titles are titles Mine and theirs and well I have more than anyone like you wildcat and my kids have more than you or yours as well soooooo what use are you ...what's your purpose in life wth are you good for other than trying to down kids and make so idiots think your foolish message board rants mean anything....like I said Yawwnnnnnn and one day college wrestling is over ...hint hint then what it goes into what's next ....and what's next for ATM  who knows but he will graduate knowing he never ran from anyone and was the best High School wrestler in his states History and the only D1 gradeclass wrestler of the year to ever come out of it along with the other 100 or so things he did first and only in in his state .....like forfeits ....his first ever match in ky no one ever even seeing him wrestle ..they forfeited against a freshman ...that's insane. 

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On 6/12/2019 at 9:06 AM, grappler-of-old said:

Since this was started.  Who historically in KY placed at Fargo and NHSCA as Seniors? 

NHSCA is really hard to list all the placers. Could be done but I don’t have the time. 

I do have a Fargo almanac updated annually by Jason Bryant (although I only have the 2017 version handy). Here are the KY Fargo placers:

Cadet FS Joe Carr 7th 1994

Cadet FS Kevin Cooper 5th 2011

Cadet FS Ryan Moore 7th 2016

Junior FS Mike Benson 8th 1991

Junior FS Joe Carr 4th 1995

Junior FS Joe Carr 5th 1996

Junior FS Joe Carr 2nd 1997

Junior FS Sean Fausz 8th 2013

Junior FS Austin Myers 3rd 2014

Junior FS Austin Myers 3rd 2015

Junior GR Austin Myers 6th 2014

Junior GR Brandon Reed 4th 2016

 

i know I missed a couple from 2017 and 2018 like our first champ Zeke Escalera 

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I say Sean is the best wrestler out of CC because he IS. He has consistently performed the best at the highest level. (Unless austin wins the  spot back from an underclassman and AAs). That doesn't mean Stephan and austin were not 2,3 and very talented High School wrestlers. 

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15 hours ago, Nkawtg said:

If ATM is so excellent and truly the best ever from Ky, then why the below average performances in college?

He wrestled in an below average weight class in a top 35 wrestling state. Did not attend any major in season tournaments. He racked up a ton of wins against below average competitors all while being at least a year older than his grade. Won some "national" GRADE level events despite being older. Some of the nationals wins had brackets of 11 people.

Ask dad about his top wins. He will mention wins over football players and 5th place winners from Ohio who also did not make a dent on the college scene.

He will also take about all the Ohio wins against teams from the south east. The only decent tournament he attended was gmvwc, St Paris G  attends and that's about it.

In college the he is actually wrestling against good athletic kids who have matured. 

Despite all of the that he is still he greatest  highschool 220 in ky history. 

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Well a below avg weight class in a less than top 35 state ,the same state as Sean ,except Austin won 4 Sean won 2 a d Austin went undefeated ...And if you think 125 is harder than 285 in college yout insane There are not even many grown a men walking around under 125 ,Sean hasn't wrestled many more matches than Austin in college because he could not go up and make the team Austin went up and performed very well against THE Best in the country on a power 5 team with a loaded schedule.

No comparison had he actually AA top 3 I might have agreed college side but he did not even with a good top 8 seed he did not AA .And he did not show up to Universities many x I assume because of weight issues .as for making it his league was smaller the mac he had to only win 2 matches every yr to go.a greatv125..yes ..but best out of CC you could argue college ..but his win loss record lifetime will always have about xs as many losses than Austin..And all the weak state talk is funny Austin was doing national tournaments since he was 10 and beating ranked guys ..it was the same in ky ,as a freshman he easily had the biggest win of any ky wrester at nat duals beating Robinson from Ind, and then winning a freshman title and ow at nat duals ...and every yr he did the same he beat far better kids multiple state champs and ranked guys from other states ,nice list ranger ,Stephen has 3 cadet AAs from Fargo as well of course he was in Ohio,   AUSTIN did have Austin lost to the champ by 1 his sr yr after Ohio petitioned for a seed change and moved their guy on opposite side putting Austin against the champ before finals ..their guy Vough was pinned or teched he lost twice to Odigizuwa .that yr .

AS FOR WEAK KY SCHEDULE CC WRESTLED MORE IN OHIO THAN KY  EXPLAINING AUSTINS OWS AT FRANKLIN ,WESTERN BROWN AND THE NUTTER CENTER WHERE HE WON OW EVEN WITH GRAHAM THERE...LOOK IT UP .HE WAS WINNING OWS IN TOURNAMEBTS SEAN AND NO OTHER CC KIDS EXCEPT STEPHEN  WERE PLACING IN.

If Austin had never won any nat level stuff before his sr yr his sr yr accomplishments alone makes him easily ky best .. Fargo I loss to champ at heavy by 1 after a bracket change becIse Ohio cried and their guy was pinned 

Nhsca title sr ow and NHSCa wrestler of the yr  and a flo title all in less than a week .Border wars win ..and a Dapper dan appearance against a pa heavy and a state title all in less than 1 week that's right the week he wrestled dapper dan he had wrestled and won a state title just a few days before ..so a cen reg champ and Fargo 3rd as well.

And his jr yr he won at nat duals won 2 ows at cen reg and was kys first ever Greco aa . And a nat runner up at NHSCA his worst placing there.of course he avenged it ..

Either one of those yrs alone makes him kys best ever ..

His freshman yr he went undefeated at nat duals against older kids and won ky state title against a former champ and won fresh nat and ky first ever OW there .

So I could say the same that yr alone as well 

No one matched any single yr of his let alone all 4 combined .

No KY kid ever scored on him in any legit match in 4 yrs ..let alone beat him.

He lost one legit folkstyle match his whole High School career in season and at NHSCAs and  he came back and beat him intentionally in great fashion ...That's why he was a Cliff keen and Flo wrestler of the week .another first for any ky wrestler .

Now try to grasp that when you compare him with anyone ..he was a 220 in High School and not the biggest  220 .then by any means and he went hvy in college rather than drop not because it was easy but because he was in demand at hvy and did not choose to cut ...

Another first for any ky wrestler an NCAA D1  grade level wrestler of the yr .

If you want to see CC best wrestler line everyone up Austin will be home now and again ..I will take bets no one lasts a period .. except maybe Stephen.. Untill then Stephen is around hes a double AA as well CC first ever sr AA and he has beaten more ky state champs and nat ranked kids in High School than anyone from ky ever .You dont want to compare records and wins against him either .

Love those record boards at CC ,Moeller and  Readings are nice too.

And as I always said Joe Carr one of the best ...Austin went and trained with him and he came and trained with us ..great individual person as well as wrestler .

 

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