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naplesme

2020 MS State Tournament

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Are we locked into the ridiculous move to March? Can we vote in the spring meeting  to put a move back to February in the Fall meeting? Moving the MS Regional and State tournament to after High School State , was, is and will always be a bad idea that only serves to financially benefit private clubs.

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42 minutes ago, naplesme said:

Are we locked into the ridiculous move to March? Can we vote in the spring meeting  to put a move back to February in the Fall meeting? Moving the MS Regional and State tournament to after High School State , was, is and will always be a bad idea that only serves to financially benefit private clubs.

It’s a bad move that I suspect will have a negative impact on numbers, at least on the school teams.  There’s simply no good reason to extend the middle school season that much past the high school season.

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The logic was: If we start later, we will get more football players. As many of the football players who come to wrestling only get a few weeks or tournaments before Region and then state. Or at least that was one of the reasons. Another was that if we went longer, then we would be able to get more of the boarder states MS teams to compete against. Yes, I know that was ridiculous, as all most every state that boarders us are done wrestling before our High School State tournament. If you want to make changes, then as coaches, I implore you to attend the Fall and Spring Meetings, otherwise changes you may not agree with get put into place. It does us no good to complain after the fact.  

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I’m not a coach, I’m a parent who has two kids who play football and I’m not sure the conflict between football and wrestling. Not trying to cast blame earlier, just asking a question.

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11 minutes ago, naplesme said:

The logic was: If we start later, we will get more football players. As many of the football players who come to wrestling only get a few weeks or tournaments before Region and then state. Or at least that was one of the reasons. Another was that if we went longer, then we would be able to get more of the boarder states MS teams to compete against. Ye, I know that was ridiculous, as all most every state that boarders us are done wrestling before our High School State tournament. If you want to make changes, then as coaches, I implore you to attend the Fall and Spring Meetings, otherwise changes you may not agree with. It does us no good to complain after the fact.  

Flawed logic, since middle school football is for the most part, done by the end of October, and football players at most, miss maybe a week or two of practice.  I know, I coached both sports at the middle school level.  Starting the season later isn't going to bring more football players in.  It may push baseball players out though, especially those that play up for their high schools, or those involved in travel ball.  And while I can appreciate that starting the season later syncs up better with Ohio's season (at least here in NKY), in reality, that only affects the first 3 weeks of the season as it currently stands in KY, and if you want to seek out competition in Ohio, you still can with the season as it currently stands.  And what it definitely will do is create competition for practice space for the school based teams, as spring sports will need the indoor facilities in the spring because of iffy weather conditions driving outdoor sports indoors.  

Again, this affects school based teams more than club based teams.  It just feels like many of the decisions that have been made are benefiting the club based teams, and could push school teams that are already fighting an uphill battle, out of the sport.

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39 minutes ago, naplesme said:

The logic was: If we start later, we will get more football players. As many of the football players who come to wrestling only get a few weeks or tournaments before Region and then state. Or at least that was one of the reasons. Another was that if we went longer, then we would be able to get more of the boarder states MS teams to compete against. Yes, I know that was ridiculous, as all most every state that boarders us are done wrestling before our High School State tournament. If you want to make changes, then as coaches, I implore you to attend the Fall and Spring Meetings, otherwise changes you may not agree with get put into place. It does us no good to complain after the fact.  

This has been a problem for years not show up to the meetings but complain if something gets voted on that they don't like. I was guilty of that for sometime then I started making meetings and got active with the overall workings. Now I am the secretary of KFWC and I emplore all teams to send a representative to the meetings to voice their opinion and vote. We also need to remember this is about the kids not the adults. We are KFWC which includes teams that are clubs and schools, there should not be a defining line between the two as either way they are full of KIDS that just want to wrestle.

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Can anyone post the actually dates that are set for Middle School. Start/finish whatever the locations of the Regional tourneys and the State tourney and the dates as well so I can start to figure how I can work around them and get my schedule set to get kids there. Thanks

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2 hours ago, panthers said:

Can anyone post the actually dates that are set for Middle School. Start/finish whatever the locations of the Regional tourneys and the State tourney and the dates as well so I can start to figure how I can work around them and get my schedule set to get kids there. Thanks

2018 KFWC Minutes Spring.docx

 

Everything is here in the Minutes Panther.

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     After reading these minutes. Seems to me its about time that the school teams get together to form their own league. I know it is costing our school a small fortune to field a middle school team.  Paying for USA cards for the kids and coaches after they already have insurance.  As the middle school team gets bigger its harder and harder to sell this cost to the athletic department. 

     Seems ridiculous to me that the head coach and other coaches of the high school team cannot coach their own kids at middle school events.  

Maybe it is just our school but are there any other school teams in this predicament? 

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Here is what I could find.

 

Voted to move 2019-2020 season dates at Fall 2017 Coaches Meeting with dates to be voted upon during Spring 2018 Coaches Meeting (passed 20-6).

Proposed: Joe Carr Jr.

Proposals:

Option 1: No change to season

Option 2: Change:

Option 2a: Region held the week before HS Region (State 4th weekend of February; Region 1st week of Feb, HS Region, HS State, MS State)

Option 2b: Post-season begins weekend after HS State (Region 4th week, then March state) Commentary from attendees: In Favor:  Allow athletes playing football to finish season  Align with IN and OH season, providing opportunity for some for additional competition  Officials availability  Less time gap between season end and national events Against:  Additional competition for gym time with other sports (baseball, softball beginning after HS State for some schools)  Athletes splitting time with other sports starting up (basketball, baseball)  Not aligning with HS season

Motion to vote: Holmes / Walton Verona seconded

Voting Results: Option 1: No change to season - Change 13, no change 12

Option 2: Change: Option 2a: 6 Option 2b: 19

 

The 2019-2020 Post Season will begin the weekend after HS State (Region 4th weekend of February, State in March). No change to first organized practice or competition dates – align with HS dates.

 

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19 hours ago, bulldog-leader said:

     After reading these minutes. Seems to me its about time that the school teams get together to form their own league. I know it is costing our school a small fortune to field a middle school team.  Paying for USA cards for the kids and coaches after they already have insurance.  As the middle school team gets bigger its harder and harder to sell this cost to the athletic department. 

     Seems ridiculous to me that the head coach and other coaches of the high school team cannot coach their own kids at middle school events.  

Maybe it is just our school but are there any other school teams in this predicament? 

Yes its a huge problem cost and all that goes with it buses as well. I started to just charge more for our middle school kids just to cover some of the expenses with cards, coaches fees and tourney fees. Even after raising it I noticed that with the outrageous cost to compete at Regions with no cap for teams I still didn't charge enough to over come it all. Tourney fees just for middle school alone for us this season was $587 and we only did 2 plus regions. As I was telling my coaches the other day you have to charge at least $125 fee per kid to cover the cost and break even unless you have more than 25 middle school kids at least. Just hard to grow your numbers like that and if you already have insurance then why should you have to do that. I think its way to much even for the ones that have to have it. If you don't have lots of kids in your clubs you either have to charge a fortune or lose money in building our teams. We do not  compete at the youth level at all for these and other reasons.

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     At our school we do not charge kids to participate.  If we did then there would be almost no participation in any of the sports. That is why it is costing a small fortune for us after we already are covered by school insurance.  I have been told in the past (By people from USA Wrestling) that we do not have insurance but whenever a kid gets hurt they are covered by the school insurance, doctor, hospital and therapy all covered. 

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21 hours ago, bulldog-leader said:

     After reading these minutes. Seems to me its about time that the school teams get together to form their own league. I know it is costing our school a small fortune to field a middle school team.  Paying for USA cards for the kids and coaches after they already have insurance.  As the middle school team gets bigger its harder and harder to sell this cost to the athletic department. 

     Seems ridiculous to me that the head coach and other coaches of the high school team cannot coach their own kids at middle school events.  

Maybe it is just our school but are there any other school teams in this predicament? 

Costs are certainly a concern, and while I was coaching middle school, unfortunately we passed the USA cost to the wrestler.  I know not all schools can do that, and even we had a few on "scholarship".  Kenton County doesn't bus, so obviously we don't have those costs, but fees are the main reason we started hosting tourney's, and our tourney's basically covered our fees for the entire year.  I'm completely with you on the High School coach issue.  If a coach is KHSAA certified, they should be able to coach their middle school kids.

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23 hours ago, bulldog-leader said:

     After reading these minutes. Seems to me its about time that the school teams get together to form their own league. I know it is costing our school a small fortune to field a middle school team.  Paying for USA cards for the kids and coaches after they already have insurance.  As the middle school team gets bigger its harder and harder to sell this cost to the athletic department. 

     Seems ridiculous to me that the head coach and other coaches of the high school team cannot coach their own kids at middle school events.  

Maybe it is just our school but are there any other school teams in this predicament? 

Here is the problem with that scenario. You split School and Club teams apart you have Neutered our sport state wide. The best of of our kids are in both club and school teams. In order to wrestle a Club tornament the scholl would have to still have the USA cards. This means the scholl teams get less mat time especially the schools locked in central who are not on a border that can travel over state lines.If we want our sport to grow we need to stop the infighting about club VS. team and work with what we have. We will not grow if we stay stagnate, we have some of the best raw talent in the country yet a lot goes under developed for just these types of reasons. 

 

                            JUST MY OPINION.

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On 2/26/2019 at 1:28 PM, Bulldoglife said:

. In order to wrestle a Club tornament the scholl would have to still have the USA cards. This means the scholl teams get less mat time especially the schools locked in central who are not on a border that can travel over state lines.

 

                           JUST MY OPINION.

Just to show my ignorance how can the school teams cross over state lines and wrestle without a USA card?  What do the bordering states do?

I am not arguing club Vs school (even though I am confused how you can have a team that is not even closely associated with a school), I am concerned about cost.  Like it or not that is a real problem, schools must stay within a budget.

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There areschool duals in border states that do not require usa cards. Some areas where we have clubs with no school affiliation there is no school that offers MS wrestling. Several of our Clubs up here in NKY have school names but are not subsidised by the schools.I 

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