take em to the mat 29 Report post Posted February 18, 2019 Has there ever been a discussion regarding assessment of the officials? This will asure the best officials the state has to offer will be on the mat at state. The kids have to earn the right, official should as well. Simply send out a list of all officials interested in officiating state tournament series. Coaches can rank officials performances. Based on knowledge, professionalism, maturity, experience and over all ability under fire. Coaches will only critique those they have been exposed to. Opinions please. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
8798 45 Report post Posted February 18, 2019 Great idea. Some states even allow coaches to "scratch" certain refs so they are not allowed to work the matches for their team at the State Finals. (Not certain if it is allowed here.) 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
take em to the mat 29 Report post Posted February 18, 2019 Just now, 8798 said: Great idea. Some states even allow coaches to "scratch" certain refs so they are not allowed to work the matches for their team at the State Finals. (Not certain if it is allowed here.) Agreed you should have the ability to scratch a ref. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chris Duke 284 Report post Posted February 18, 2019 I'm not here to bash the Ref's. I understand this is a paid position so they should be held accountable. I also understand they can't see everything. If the state is not going to seed this tournament at the very least there should be 2 ref's from the quarterfinals on. These kids should not be penalized in a scramble because the ref is either out of position or afraid to correct himself. 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
119Rider 61 Report post Posted February 18, 2019 Missouri has retired officials evaluate current officials. Regions are allowed to select officials from a possible candidate list. A "No" by any team automatically rules that official out for that region. They can be put on ballot for state. From quarters on there are 2 officials on the mat. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
take em to the mat 29 Report post Posted February 18, 2019 7 minutes ago, Chris Duke said: I'm not here to bash the Ref's. I understand this is a paid position so they should be held accountable. I also understand they can't see everything. If the state is not going to seed this tournament at the very least there should be 2 ref's from the quarterfinals on. These kids should not be penalized in a scramble because the ref is either out of position or afraid to correct himself. Not the intent of this post to bash anyone. Just a discussion to possibly improve the tournament experience for all concerned. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ranger123 43 Report post Posted February 18, 2019 I believe there is some evaluation process currently in place. Not sure how effective or complete it is. I do like the idea of some sort of scratch list. Or at a minimum a list of officials who should always have an asst. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GentleBeard 145 Report post Posted February 18, 2019 29 minutes ago, Chris Duke said: I'm not here to bash the Ref's. I understand this is a paid position so they should be held accountable. I also understand they can't see everything. If the state is not going to seed this tournament at the very least there should be 2 ref's from the quarterfinals on. These kids should not be penalized in a scramble because the ref is either out of position or afraid to correct himself. Sounds like you saw one of our matches ;-) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
take em to the mat 29 Report post Posted February 18, 2019 3 minutes ago, Ranger123 said: I believe there is some evaluation process currently in place. Not sure how effective or complete it is. I do like the idea of some sort of scratch list. Or at a minimum a list of officials who should always have an asst. If indeed there is a process I believe coaches should want to be a part of it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TWO!!! 4 Report post Posted February 18, 2019 1 hour ago, Chris Duke said: I'm not here to bash the Ref's. I understand this is a paid position so they should be held accountable. I also understand they can't see everything. If the state is not going to seed this tournament at the very least there should be 2 ref's from the quarterfinals on. These kids should not be penalized in a scramble because the ref is either out of position or afraid to correct himself. Without seeding, I like the two refs starting in the quarters as well but the second ref actually has to be "engaged" and in position to assist with the match. For example, there were back to back finals matches that locking hands should've been called (at least twice in both matches) and in both matches the calls weren't even brought to attention/discussed. How beneficial were those second refs in those matches??? I know we don't want the refs to decide matches but is it not the same as not calling obvious penalties. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FalconWrestling 147 Report post Posted February 18, 2019 An issue I saw is that the second ref is basically superfluous in Kentucky the majority of the time. There was a heavyweight match where a takedown wasn’t scored because neither ref was watching the clock, there was also a noncall in a finals match where a secondary ref needs to step up and say, “yes that’s the rule.” It’s frustrating because this past state tournament I saw very good refs make mistakes they shouldn’t have had to make. I know that there is an issue with keeping our ref numbers up but just like with coaching just because we know and respect each other doesn’t mean we can’t push each other to do better. Some of the best refs in the country are here in Kentucky, but even then mistakes are made. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matreturn 9 Report post Posted February 18, 2019 Consistency of calls needs improvement. When you have a ref disqualify a kid for a particular move/hold during season then allow a kid to pin another in the state tournament with the same move/hold, something isn’t right. Either the wording of that rule is too vague or the ref doesn’t understand the rule. Also, I know video reviews would be nearly impossible for all matches at State but at the very least the finals should have that option. Our kids work hard to reach that opportunity and deserve every chance to earn the title with the least amount of human error. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
take em to the mat 29 Report post Posted February 18, 2019 You guys are bringing up valid issues. So back to the original topic. What measures would everyone like to see in place? What will inhance the wrestling experience? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ukpridewrestler11 276 Report post Posted February 18, 2019 Video replay will be hard to justify. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Josh_Claywell 52 Report post Posted February 18, 2019 Is video replay used by any high school association? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
take em to the mat 29 Report post Posted February 18, 2019 27 minutes ago, Josh_Claywell said: Is video replay used by any high school association? It looks like Alabama, New Jersey, Minnesota and Texas are using it for football,basketball and hockey. No mention of wrestling. And all are trials only. I believe the use of instant replay in wrestling would cause more problems than solve. I’m sure some coaches would abuse it. Kids tired! “I think he was in bounds on the takedown” let’s review. As 1 example. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
heavy83 15 Report post Posted February 18, 2019 New rule change this year in football video review can be used in post season only. Wrestling rules hasn't met yet Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Willowbeast 0 Report post Posted February 18, 2019 The same ref that caused my boy to lose the region finals match. Ref my kids blood round and also made a few bad calls that caused him to lose that match also. Another thing I would love your opinions on. Should a ref be referring if he’s alumni of the county that’s holding the region. He ref 90% of that county finals matches. To me that’s a conflict of interest. Can I get your opinions on that topic? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
plantmanky1 58 Report post Posted February 18, 2019 A coaches scratch list wont work in KY currently, there are not enough officials to start with. You allow coaches to scratch, you want have any for the state tournament. Having asst refs at Quarterfinals is a good start but why start there, halfway through the tournament, if you going to do that, do it from match 1 of the state tournament. However I guess the downside of that is if coaches are not happy with the refs at the tournament now, adding more that they wont be happy with doesnt do much. Video replay is never a good idea at the High School or below level. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ukpridewrestler11 276 Report post Posted February 19, 2019 Would you all consider this a takedown at the 2:07 mark? https://www.thegleaner.com/videos/sports/2019/02/17/highlights-union-countys-state-wrestling-championship/2901267002/ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
plantmanky1 58 Report post Posted February 19, 2019 27 minutes ago, ukpridewrestler11 said: Would you all consider this a takedown at the 2:07 mark? https://www.thegleaner.com/videos/sports/2019/02/17/highlights-union-countys-state-wrestling-championship/2901267002/ Going to have to be more specific on which one of the 3 matches we are supposed to be looking at. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ukpridewrestler11 276 Report post Posted February 19, 2019 1 minute ago, plantmanky1 said: Going to have to be more specific on which one of the 3 matches we are supposed to be looking at. 160 Finals match. Zane Brown vs Stephen Little Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JC1 4 Report post Posted February 19, 2019 49 minutes ago, ukpridewrestler11 said: Would you all consider this a takedown at the 2:07 mark? https://www.thegleaner.com/videos/sports/2019/02/17/highlights-union-countys-state-wrestling-championship/2901267002/ That’s two..... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ukpridewrestler11 276 Report post Posted February 19, 2019 14 minutes ago, JC1 said: That’s two..... It wasn’t called. Score stayed 1-0 Zane Brown lead. Little went for a desperation shot later and the rest was history. You think with two refs on the mat, one of the two would’ve ruled that a takedown. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
take em to the mat 29 Report post Posted February 19, 2019 1 hour ago, plantmanky1 said: A coaches scratch list wont work in KY currently, there are not enough officials to start with. You allow coaches to scratch, you want have any for the state tournament. Having asst refs at Quarterfinals is a good start but why start there, halfway through the tournament, if you going to do that, do it from match 1 of the state tournament. However I guess the downside of that is if coaches are not happy with the refs at the tournament now, adding more that they wont be happy with doesnt do much. Video replay is never a good idea at the High School or below level. You get one scratch. If a ref has multiple scratches. Then you don’t want him anyway. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites