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JGriffith115

MS Regions/Youth Regions

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Just my point of view coming from another state.  When is KY going to stop allowing wrestlers who wrestle at the MS regions and place from turning around and wrestling in the Youth Region tournament.  If you decide to register your wrestler for the MS tournament and they place they should forfeit the right to wrestle at the youth tournament just to get extra matches, it takes away from the less experienced at the youth level that can not compete at the MS level.  If you attend the MS region tournament and place in top 4 you should be locked into MS state.  If you think your wrestler is a step up then they should be seeking to wrestle the harder division to better themselves and looking to face the better wrestlers, not step back down just to get wins.  

 That or make the MS tournament MS 6-8 and the Youth,  Youth K-5 only like every other state.  One other thing, the Youth Region should be same as MS.  The weight you wrestle at Regions should be the weight you are locked into for state.  I know a lot of individuals will wrestle one weight at regions then try to cut or go up a class to dodge certain individuals and most of that is on Coaches/Parents.  This should not be an option for these wrestlers at this age.  I know everyone wants their kids to be state champs but being a Youth/MS State Champion means 0 when it comes to their future.  Becoming a better wrestler and individual does.  

If KY wrestling wants to catch up to surrounding areas we need to start by doing things right across the board to get these wrestlers boys/girls to where they need to be.

 

Thank you.

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I’m fairly certain those are the rules. If the kid places at MS state they’re not allowed to wrestle Youth state. 

This is different than in years past when if the wrestler even qualified for MS state they were ineligible for Youth state.  

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The rules are if you place at MS State in top 6 you can not wrestle the next day at the Youth State, but if your wrestler chooses to wrestle in MS regions and places in top 4 which qualifies them for MS State they should not be aloud to wrestle at the Youth Region or State.  Its one or the other, not giving 2 opportunities at 2 different state tournaments. There are coaches that are having their wrestlers wrestle MS regions on Sat. and placing top 4 then turn around and wrestling Youth Regions the next day.  That should not be an option.

Just trying to push to have things the same way here as every where else.  

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There is not a “qualifying” tournament for youth state so regionals are just basically an extra tournament, anyone can wrestle if they want. Any youth kid can wrestle at youth state as long as they don’t place top 6 for middle school state. I see both sides of the argument. Let’s say a 4th grader places at middle school regionals he or she should still be allowed to do youth regionals. Now, let’s say a 6th grader places at middle school regionals.....they should be exempt from doing youth regionals. However, “youth” in KY is technically K-8 so.... And if we are trying to be more progressive then KY needs “rookie” or “novice” divisions like other states. There’s lots of things we could argue are “wrong” with KY wrestling if we are trying to compare ourselves to big 10 country. 

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I think if you get top 6 at the middle school state tournament then the kid should be ineligible for youth state, as the rule states. But I don't think Kentucky is as good as those other states that you are referring to. At this point in time, in my opinion I'm ok with the rules.as they stand.. But if Kentucky continues the trend and the sport continues to grow thats something that should be brought up.

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4 hours ago, JGriffith115 said:

The rules are if you place at MS State in top 6 you can not wrestle the next day at the Youth State, but if your wrestler chooses to wrestle in MS regions and places in top 4 which qualifies them for MS State they should not be aloud to wrestle at the Youth Region or State.  Its one or the other, not giving 2 opportunities at 2 different state tournaments. There are coaches that are having their wrestlers wrestle MS regions on Sat. and placing top 4 then turn around and wrestling Youth Regions the next day.  That should not be an option.

Just trying to push to have things the same way here as every where else.  

Good call, I misread that (trying to do too much at once).  Region 3 took care of this issue (though inadvertently) by running MS and Youth simultaneously. 

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9 hours ago, JGriffith115 said:

The rules are if you place at MS State in top 6 you can not wrestle the next day at the Youth State, but if your wrestler chooses to wrestle in MS regions and places in top 4 which qualifies them for MS State they should not be aloud to wrestle at the Youth Region or State.  Its one or the other, not giving 2 opportunities at 2 different state tournaments. There are coaches that are having their wrestlers wrestle MS regions on Sat. and placing top 4 then turn around and wrestling Youth Regions the next day.  That should not be an option.

Just trying to push to have things the same way here as every where else.  

We actually has this discussion  at the coaches meeting  and the problem  lies where some regions  only have a couple  kids in a weight class. Those kids automatically  will earn a state qualifier position  by proxy, if you take most of them to MS State they are 2 and out so why tell them here you are 1 Of 3 kids at 130 in your MS region so you go to MS state and get trampled and BTW you can th wrestle  youth sunday because  you were a state qualifier.  We want to build the sport nor let it continue  to falter.

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I’ll stir pot. 

Here is the BIG WOODEN SPOON that everyone is waiting for. 

Quality over quantity?

OR......

Quanity over quality?

 

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3 minutes ago, Nike Man said:

I’ll stir pot. 

Here is the BIG WOODEN SPOON that everyone is waiting for. 

Quality over quantity?

OR......

Quanity over quality?

 

Don’t these two go hand-in-hand?  You need quantity in order to build quality and vice versa.

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10 hours ago, Dblev275 said:

Don’t these two go hand-in-hand?  You need quantity in order to build quality and vice versa.

 

10 hours ago, Dblev275 said:

Don’t these two go hand-in-hand?  You need quantity in order to build quality and vice versa.

I agree 100% that we are on the right track of bringing quality and quantity  up by using this method. Some parts of the state barely have enough kids to fill the top 4 MS Regional Qualifiers. So if we remove those opportunities, then we also remove those numbers from the MS State.  Look it doesn’t hurt anyone, having these “border line” wrestlers competing on both levels. They are still kids! Until we have the numbers of participants and quality coaches and programs around the state like Ohio, PA and States like these, we have to quit comparing Kentucky to these States. If you follow the success of the programs/ regions around the state, you see that it’s driven by the coaches and parents involved in the youth, MS and HS. Look at McCraddle sorry “McCracken”. You can name the coaches and parents involved in building quality and quantity. They have there own barge company, private jets to bring in rock star college wrestlers to teach there 300+ youth that live in the county, how to run a cradle from any position on the mat. Union County, fill in the blank for the first name and put Ervin behind it!! They have coaches/parents like Jon Carr that will pack kids in a van and drive them all over the country buiding quality. (I was hoping they’d adopt Cole “Ervin”) Christian County brings Dee Leavell on and this teams on fire!! This guy is having bake sales and t shirt sales to raise money for his team to have better gear and traveling money to be the best!! Issac Knable with St X and the followers they have. He even built a factory across the River from Louisville that produces these little hammers and the quanity/quality is showing!!Johnson Central looks like a Football Team turned wrestlers!! Maybe because the head coach is one and the same!!! And then there’s the “Northern Kentucky” Mafia”. A bunch of Hall of Fame Old Head Coaches with Dads that build barns and wood sheds to train in. Move mats in trailers to whatever location they can find when school is closed to train. Recruits 1/2 the football team while being a water boy for your sons team. Get jobs with the school systems so you can recruit the basketball kids that are cut from team. Have 5 programs from NKY bringing down over 1/3 of the total participants of the youth state. That is quanity in search of quality!!!! Guys this has been a favorite topic of mine for 11 years now. We have to just keep doing our best in our own home towns. Getting the kids out. Finding great Moms and Dads that love wrestling and build your biggest youth program. Then get them to buy into the dream of staying together through the MS and HS grind to chase a championship. The associations job should always be to support every program trying to accomplish this goal. Then we will have the quanity with the quality!! Best of luck to each of your kids in post season! Enjoy the moment with them because it passes too fast!

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My thoughts on this is simple, isn’t every team at youth a club team? From our bylaws there isn’t anything saying that you can’t combine youth teams and make a bigger club. As long as it’s chartered through USA Wrestling and has USA qualified coaches I don’t see the issue. Youth State Duals is an anomaly since at the youth level we don’t have youth dual tournaments all year except at state Duals.  Every youth tournament you go to all year is a bracket tournament. Also, youth kids can technically wrestle for any club they want to all year as long as they are chartered. One week he/she wrestles for one club for example the next week he/she wrestled for another club. As long as he/she is on their chartered roster I don’t know of any limitations. So from what I see there is no limitations on where your kid at the youth level can wrestle. As long as your kid is on that teams roster and it’s chartered and paid for by January 1st. I will say that these by laws need to be  addressed for that situation. 

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42 minutes ago, gameface said:

 

I agree 100% that we are on the right track of bringing quality and quantity  up by using this method. Some parts of the state barely have enough kids to fill the top 4 MS Regional Qualifiers. So if we remove those opportunities, then we also remove those numbers from the MS State.  Look it doesn’t hurt anyone, having these “border line” wrestlers competing on both levels. They are still kids! Until we have the numbers of participants and quality coaches and programs around the state like Ohio, PA and States like these, we have to quit comparing Kentucky to these States. If you follow the success of the programs/ regions around the state, you see that it’s driven by the coaches and parents involved in the youth, MS and HS. Look at McCraddle sorry “McCracken”. You can name the coaches and parents involved in building quality and quantity. They have there own barge company, private jets to bring in rock star college wrestlers to teach there 300+ youth that live in the county, how to run a cradle from any position on the mat. Union County, fill in the blank for the first name and put Ervin behind it!! They have coaches/parents like Jon Carr that will pack kids in a van and drive them all over the country buiding quality. (I was hoping they’d adopt Cole “Ervin”) Christian County brings Dee Leavell on and this teams on fire!! This guy is having bake sales and t shirt sales to raise money for his team to have better gear and traveling money to be the best!! Issac Knable with St X and the followers they have. He even built a factory across the River from Louisville that produces these little hammers and the quanity/quality is showing!!Johnson Central looks like a Football Team turned wrestlers!! Maybe because the head coach is one and the same!!! And then there’s the “Northern Kentucky” Mafia”. A bunch of Hall of Fame Old Head Coaches with Dads that build barns and wood sheds to train in. Move mats in trailers to whatever location they can find when school is closed to train. Recruits 1/2 the football team while being a water boy for your sons team. Get jobs with the school systems so you can recruit the basketball kids that are cut from team. Have 5 programs from NKY bringing down over 1/3 of the total participants of the youth state. That is quanity in search of quality!!!! Guys this has been a favorite topic of mine for 9 years now. We have to just keep doing our best in our own home towns. Getting the kids out. Finding great Moms and Dads that love wrestling and build your biggest youth program. Then get them to buy into the dream of staying together through the MS and HS grind to chase a championship. The associations job should always be to support every program trying to accomplish this goal. Then we will have the quanity with the quality!! Best of luck to each of your kids in post season!!!! 

Gameface this has been the best comment I’ve seen. And your right. I’m pretty new to this group but I can tell you there is more crying here then they are on Facebook hahaha 

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1 hour ago, BeastMode23 said:

Gameface this has been the best comment I’ve seen. And your right. I’m pretty new to this group but I can tell you there is more crying here then they are on Facebook hahaha 

 Unlike Facebook, the majority of people on here have a true love for the sport and the kids that participate in it. I’ve been involved with  Kentucky wrestling for the last 10-11 years and I can tell you there are some incredible people from around the state on this site just passing along their opinions  and some great ideas. The keyboard warriors on social media do it more for division of our country and hatred. Everyone on here have the same goals to better the support and for the love of these athletes. But I appreciate your comment and wish you the best this  post season for your wrestler. 

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31 minutes ago, gameface said:

 Unlike Facebook, the majority of people on here have a true love for the sport and the kids that participate in it. I’ve been involved with  Kentucky wrestling for the last 10-11 years and I can tell you there are some incredible people from around the state on this site just passing along their opinions  and some great ideas. The keyboard warriors on social media do it more for division of our country and hatred. Everyone on here have the same goals to better the support and for the love of these athletes. But I appreciate your comment and wish you the best this  post season for your wrestler. 

Thanks I appreciate that. And I also got love for this sport I’m just meaning my 12 yr old son has more pride than to blame coaches or blame other people for his loses he sucks it up and takes it he don’t like and yes he will cry from time to time but he don’t care if the kid come from a small school or a big school or who the coaches of the kid is or if the kid drops weight or bumps up. And what I’m meaning is why don’t the address the problems at the match. Also I’m not meaning on this thread of all the crying I’m talking about everything I read someone is hating on the winners and saying why didn’t they do this or that. And I just thought you told it like it is because some of the schools you mentioned do have millionaires backing them and they wrestle all year and some of the other schools train in locker rooms and only wrestle few months out of the year and they hold there own. 

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