What is the seeding criteria for state ?

[Alf 43]

2 hours ago, twenhofelcoach said:

We went to 5 regions this year because of the travel situation for teams. Not enough teams to support 8 regions. With teams showing up one year and dropping the next it’s rough at the middle school level to be honest. My suggestion would be (6)regions and (5)qualifiers. Would get us up to 30 kids at State with only 2 byes, thus allowing balanced brackets with an even number of regions in which need to create balance when seeding.

That would get my vote!

[TheScrambler 16]

You honestly need to win region if you want a 1 seed at the state tournament. Seeding at State isn't done off rankings. Its done off regional champs. Some regions 3 and 4 seeds could have took 1st in a different region . Some regions are harder than others. It varies from year to year and weight class to weight class. Ask Ryle and Walton. 75 lb weight class might be the toughest division this year from top to bottom. When the dust settles only one will stand on the top podium anyway. Let the cream of the crop rise to the top. good luck ladies and gentlemen. 

[44 dad 43]

Really...  who’s at 75 other then Vega ? Did Walton even have a 75lber ? You might want to check your weight classes 

[BeastMode23 17]

Just going by what I’ve seen the Ashland kid is a beast now me saying that I have not seen Vega but I have seen the Ashland 75 pounder 

[Uncle Spam 3]

On 1/22/2019 at 10:20 AM, twenhofelcoach said:

With Kiser not winning his region, this happens. Look at 70 for example. (2) of the top “ranked” Kid’s in the state wrestle each other in the quarters as well. If you don’t win your region you have a tougher draw. And that’s what the state tournament is about fellas. You only seed the regional winners then the 2,3,4’s follow as they may. And to be honest 152 will probably be changed since Christian County’s coach I believe missed the seed meeting. Believe me fellas, we as coaches and the board try to make it as fair and even as they can. But this is the state tournament and at the quarters it should be some exciting matches the rest of the way out. And this is better then what the high school does with the blind draw.

Lane Kiser just owned Preston Church at the State Duals. Kiser was beating Church 14-3 and then Kiser decked him. Yeah to be fair to Adams, Adams should be seeded 1st

[twenhofelcoach 61]

1 hour ago, Uncle Spam said:

Lane Kiser just owned Preston Church at the State Duals. Kiser was beating Church 14-3 and then Kiser decked him. Yeah to be fair to Adams, Adams should be seeded 1st

This is why State Duals would be great to have during the season, teams actually get to see other teams from across the state. Already see a couple of upsets and that helps with rankings and seeding. And they missed the seeding at 152 pretty badly of the regional champs. Hopefully they will change that bracket for the kids at that weight classes sake.

[that guy 3]

1 hour ago, twenhofelcoach said:

This is why State Duals would be great to have during the season, teams actually get to see other teams from across the state. Already see a couple of upsets and that helps with rankings and seeding. And they missed the seeding at 152 pretty badly of the regional champs. Hopefully they will change that bracket for the kids at that weight classes sake.

So will there be an opportunity to reseed?  152 was a huge miss, I went to State Duals to specifically watch this match and it wasn't even close (nor was Church's match against Anderson's 168).  Again, I agree that the cream will rise to the top, but the best wrestlers shouldn't be lumped into one side of the bracket, it just makes for a weak finals match. 

[twenhofelcoach 61]

1 hour ago, that guy said:

So will there be an opportunity to reseed?  152 was a huge miss, I went to State Duals to specifically watch this match and it wasn't even close (nor was Church's match against Anderson's 168).  Again, I agree that the cream will rise to the top, but the best wrestlers shouldn't be lumped into one side of the bracket, it just makes for a weak finals match. 

The only people who can change that for the better is the board and the five coaches representing the five regional winners at this point. I am neither, it would come down to them

[TheScrambler 16]

From what I understand. Some teams or individuals wouldn't compete in State Duels in the past, it wasn't worth the risk of losing a overall one seed. Seems petty. But its smart. That's why they were seeded before state duels. So everyone would agree to attend State duels. I could be wrong. So don't quote me. But that is my understanding of why the seeding happened before State duals.

[1982Wrestler 20]

And they still don’t show up!!!

[twenhofelcoach 61]

2 hours ago, TheScrambler said:

From what I understand. Some teams or individuals wouldn't compete in State Duels in the past, it wasn't worth the risk of losing a overall one seed. Seems petty. But its smart. That's why they were seeded before state duels. So everyone would agree to attend State duels. I could be wrong. So don't quote me. But that is my understanding of why the seeding happened before State duals.

Seeding has always been the Monday night after regionals. State Duals has truly nothing to do with the seeding of state.  But if it were held in season and not in between 2 postseason events it would help dramatically. I personally don’t agree with having it in between the post season tournaments of regionals and state. Have it the last weekend of regular season and do it like high school. Have 2 divisions and invite 12 teams each division. Teams lose kids after regionals. Just my 2 cents

[SnapDrag285 0]

On ‎1‎/‎21‎/‎2019 at 10:33 PM, Checkmate said:

I’m looking at the brackets and I can’t understand how they landed where they did . 

interested in how to see the brackets for the MS State Tourney

[Uncle Spam 3]

57 minutes ago, SnapDrag285 said:

interested in how to see the brackets for the MS State Tourney

Track wrestling 

[SnapDrag285 0]

Thank you sir. 

 

[grappler-of-old 44]

For years there has been argument about seeding both the high school and middle school state tournaments.  The middle school powers that be decided to take on this task.  Now that it is in effect there are complaining about the seeding.  

This has been my point for years.  There is no way that it can be done accurately and fairly.  There are always people who think that mistakes were made or whatever.  Its close to impossible to accurately seed the state tourney, not enough wrestling across the state for it to be done.  This is why I am glad the high school has not tried to accomplish this impossible task. At least in a random draw there can be no claims of bias. 

I do have one question however.  How is it that a #1 and a #2 from the same region are on the same side of the bracket.  This has happened at 113 for region 5.  I see this and there are people out there who think that the Ryle girl could win it all yet she is on the same side of the bracket with the one who defeated her at region.  I thought the one thing for certain was that the 1 and 2 from the same region would be separated just in case they are the best 2 in the wt. class. 

[that guy 3]

1 hour ago, grappler-of-old said:

For years there has been argument about seeding both the high school and middle school state tournaments.  The middle school powers that be decided to take on this task.  Now that it is in effect there are complaining about the seeding.  

This has been my point for years.  There is no way that it can be done accurately and fairly.  There are always people who think that mistakes were made or whatever.  Its close to impossible to accurately seed the state tourney, not enough wrestling across the state for it to be done.  This is why I am glad the high school has not tried to accomplish this impossible task. At least in a random draw there can be no claims of bias. 

I do have one question however.  How is it that a #1 and a #2 from the same region are on the same side of the bracket.  This has happened at 113 for region 5.  I see this and there are people out there who think that the Ryle girl could win it all yet she is on the same side of the bracket with the one who defeated her at region.  I thought the one thing for certain was that the 1 and 2 from the same region would be separated just in case they are the best 2 in the wt. class. 

My understanding is that outside of the 5 regional champs, all of the other spots are filled via random draw.  The true answer to this question seems to me to even out the regions and then go to 1 vs 4 and 2 vs 3 and then have a set rotation of regions for each seed spot for each bracket but also breaking up each region's 1s and 2s to opposite sides of each bracket.  It seems pretty simple, but I think we'd have to move back to 4 regions or move up to 8 regions.

[plantmanky1 58]

2 hours ago, that guy said:

My understanding is that outside of the 5 regional champs, all of the other spots are filled via random draw.  The true answer to this question seems to me to even out the regions and then go to 1 vs 4 and 2 vs 3 and then have a set rotation of regions for each seed spot for each bracket but also breaking up each region's 1s and 2s to opposite sides of each bracket.  It seems pretty simple, but I think we'd have to move back to 4 regions or move up to 8 regions.

It is that simple with 16 wrestler brackets, but you now have 20 wrestler brackets so that logic is now out of sync. 

[that guy 3]

54 minutes ago, plantmanky1 said:

It is that simple with 16 wrestler brackets, but you now have 20 wrestler brackets so that logic is now out of sync. 

Go back to 16-man bracket... boom fixed. What are the odds that 17-20 are going to medal?  Almost zero. So why dilute the pool with extra wrestlers?

[Joe Whitt 1]

Folks, this is tough.

I have been around youth and middle school wrestling in KY for a few years, and I applaud the dudes that put forth the effort to have the best MS state tournament possible.

KY is a loooooong state. Paducah to Ashland is a long way, and you cannot get to Prestonsburg from here. Not all meets are in Trackwrestling so not all matches are considered in seeding.

We (royal We, all of us) have to keep an open mind and a clear vision of what is ahead.....HS wrestling. These MS kids bust their butts and want to be the best. It is up to us to keep them motivated and passionate about wrestling, regardless of how the brackets sort out.

It is far from perfect, but I believe the folks putting it together are trying their best to make a fair and exciting tournament.

Good luck to everyone tomorrow.

[rjs4470 103]

4 hours ago, that guy said:

Go back to 16-man bracket... boom fixed. What are the odds that 17-20 are going to medal?  Almost zero. So why dilute the pool with extra wrestlers?

How do you evenly and fairly put together a 16 man bracket with 5 regions?  Some region placers have to get left out, or you only take the top 3, and have a bye.  The math simply doesn’t work.  And expanding to a 32 man bracket by taking the top 6 makes it tough to do the tourney in one day.  Not to mention some regions don’t even have 6 guys in some weight classes.  

[that guy 3]

6 hours ago, rjs4470 said:

How do you evenly and fairly put together a 16 man bracket with 5 regions?  Some region placers have to get left out, or you only take the top 3, and have a bye.  The math simply doesn’t work.  And expanding to a 32 man bracket by taking the top 6 makes it tough to do the tourney in one day.  Not to mention some regions don’t even have 6 guys in some weight classes.  

Go back to 4 regions...  4 regions, top 4 placers. 

[that guy 3]

I guess my point is that seeding with incomplete information (or no relevant information at all) is not fair to the kids, randomized seeding is not fair either. The most fair way to do it is to have brackets that are set in stone, region A’s 1 vs region B’s 4, region C’s 3 vs region D’s 4 and then rotate. 

[Wrestling123 5]

14 hours ago, that guy said:

I guess my point is that seeding with incomplete information (or no relevant information at all) is not fair to the kids, randomized seeding is not fair either. The most fair way to do it is to have brackets that are set in stone, region A’s 1 vs region B’s 4, region C’s 3 vs region D’s 4 and then rotate. 

I agree....but only if at Region each team has a limit of 2 wrestlers per weight class. Some regions can't fill a bracket but others are overflowing. Just like high school has JV, MS has youth.