CoachC

KY/USA Freestyle & Greco State Tournament

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25 minutes ago, Ranger123 said:

I don’t know that I am always above that; I quite often speak up when I get frustrated. The reasons I speak up publicly are:

1) this state isn’t making much progress and as you mentioned there are few who are putting in the effort to move it forward

2) we spend hours and hours talking about what we should do and little to nothing actually happens

3) Essentially all wrestling outside the Official KHSAA season is under the guidance of KY USA wrestling; so the distribution of funds to these teams is a board issue and should be in line with our goals

4) why am I spending my time working on the board providing my energy and input to essentially have those efforts crapped on. 

5) i sure hope the cadet team has close to a full lineup for their dual team

 

There is no cadet team.  My understanding is that it's for the same reason.  Everybody wanting it for free, which is crap.  The dual is in Washington this year.  How the heck can people expect their kid to go to Washington and wrestle for free.  Which is why I get frustrated when I see a board member on here devaluing the FS national dual team experience. I'm more than willing to pay the $400 because I know the positive impact it will have long term.  But because others don't see it that way they don't see the value and are encouraged and justified by a board member that gets on this forum criticizing KY USA wrestling.  

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11 hours ago, Ranger123 said:

I don’t know that I am always above that; I quite often speak up when I get frustrated. The reasons I speak up publicly are:

1) this state isn’t making much progress and as you mentioned there are few who are putting in the effort to move it forward

2) we spend hours and hours talking about what we should do and little to nothing actually happens

3) Essentially all wrestling outside the Official KHSAA season is under the guidance of KY USA wrestling; so the distribution of funds to these teams is a board issue and should be in line with our goals

4) why am I spending my time working on the board providing my energy and input to essentially have those efforts crapped on. 

5) i sure hope the cadet team has close to a full lineup for their dual team

 

I feel your pain. 

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12 hours ago, REscalera said:

  

Richard, again I have in no way devalued the national dual team. Quite the opposite. I believe and have expressed to many kids and parents how important it can be in a wrestlers development. I have been involved in countless team Ky efforts over the last decade at all age levels.

Yes I am being critical of KY USA wrestling because I am very unhappy with the way this has transpired and believe something needs to change. 

The last communication I heard there was only going to be a cadet and girls team. No schoolboy or junior. 

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Obviously there is a problem. It seems the first stage to fix it is to get the coaches to get the kids interested in freestyle. More kids signed up and more kids at tourneys will be more money and better wrestlers. 

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35 minutes ago, Ranger123 said:

Richard, again I have in no way devalued the national dual team. Quite the opposite. I believe and have expressed to many kids and parents how important it can be in a wrestlers development. I have been involved in countless team Ky efforts over the last decade at all age levels.

Yes I am being critical of KY USA wrestling because I am very unhappy with the way this has transpired and believe something needs to change. 

The last communication I heard there was only going to be a cadet and girls team. No schoolboy or junior. 

That is a shame.

My son was signed up for competing on the Junior team, competed at Bullit, put down a $250 deposit, registered for state and reserved a hotel room to ensure he qualified to be selected for this team

And there has been zero communication about not having a team.

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20 hours ago, Ranger123 said:

And speaking of MS folkstyle duals.  Another event supported and organized under the Ky USA umbrella. That team was free to the participants. Yes Free.  A similarly supported team was the HS scholastic dual team.  I believe those kids were charged $130.  But this developmental team where we are trying to build interest and participation in the Olympic styles is $400???  Explain that one. $270 for an extra singlet and couple nights in a hotel? Not buying that.  

Jason, this is where you devalue the $400 cost for the school boy national duals for Greco and Freestyle. 

As for you points above regarding other tournaments, you and I both know that those aren't apple to apple comparisons. 

The HS scholastic dual is one entry fee. The FS/GR national dual team pays 2 entry fees, 1 for FS and 1 for GR. Which would mean that additional $270 covers an entry fee, a singlet and a couple of days in a hotel.  Sounds like a deal to me. But I'm one of the few informed on the cost of a travel dual team whether folk or free so when I see a rant such as yours, I'm able to see it for what it is which is misleading. Where as most others might see it as credible information coming from a KY wrestling leader leading to parents also saying that it's an outrageous cost because you've devalued it with misleading information.  

As for the middle school folkstyle dual, it hasn't always been completely free and moving forward maybe it shouldn't be if it's going to lead to this attitude that everything should be free.  I would suggest being grateful that one of them was free and use the money you would have spent on that tournament on the schoolboy FR/GR before your rant ends up costing everyone in the future.

 

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We will just have to agree to disagree. Yes I 100% “devalue” the cost differential. It makes no sense. If one of our primary goals is to promote and built the Olympic styles why would we set up a system with a cost differential that doesn’t help with that. We are struggling to get kids involved in freestyle and greco. If we have money in the budget to make a folkstyle Team free then why wouldn’t that be directed at marketing and making the cost lower for the Olympic styles to eliminate that barrier for kids whose parents aren’t on board with jumping into a style that their Hs coaches are not supporting at this point. 

As for entry fees, my understanding was that Ky USA was budgeting to cover that for all teams. Wrestler fees are to cover gear, housing, transport (if applicable). 

This doesn’t have to be that complicated

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16 minutes ago, Ranger123 said:

If We will just have to agree to disagree. Yes I 100% “devalue” the cost differential. It makes no sense. If one of our primary goals is to promote and built the Olympic styles why would we set up a system with a cost differential that doesn’t help with that. We are struggling to get kids involved in freestyle and greco. If we have money in the budget to make a folkstyle Team free then why wouldn’t that be directed at marketing and making the cost lower for the Olympic styles to eliminate that barrier for kids whose parents aren’t on board with jumping into a style that their Hs coaches are not supporting at this point. 

As for entry fees, my understanding was that Ky USA was budgeting to cover that for all teams. Wrestler fees are to cover gear, housing, transport (if applicable). 

This doesn’t have to be that complicated

If we're going to agree to disagree then why are you still arguing your points?  Agreeing to disagree means we respectfully  end our conversation on the subject being discussed.  If one were to continue after agreeing to disagree it would appear at that point that they just need to have the last word. So shall we agree to disagree? 

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Yes WE shall. But I will continue to share my thoughts on these issues with the others interested in this matter and make sure complete information is shared. 

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5 hours ago, dp463 said:

That is a shame.

My son was signed up for competing on the Junior team, competed at Bullit, put down a $250 deposit, registered for state and reserved a hotel room to ensure he qualified to be selected for this team

And there has been zero communication about not having a team.

You haven’t received any communication yet?  Wow, at least the schoolboy wrestlers got an email notification and refund. Hopefully you hear soon. 

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     $400 may not seem much to some of you but to many it is a significant amount.  The reason Basketball is building in numbers is because the AAU teams have sponsors and the kids pay little to nothing to belong on those teams.  Extreme rural and inner city kids (which is where the majority of the lower income families live), have problems with any type of money going out for an extracurricular activity that one of their children will compete in.  I definitely don't know the answer to this but helping those that are interested is surely the beginning.  I know many will say "they only need to ask" or "they can go out and raise the money."  One even though they have low incomes they are not proud of it and don't want everyone to know and two who are they going to raise the money from?  Those that they know are usually low income families also and they don't have the knowhow to ask companies or businesses, who they in themselves will be skeptical as to what the donation is actually being used for.  

     I don't know the financial limitations of Ky USA wrestling but if there is any money available then it should be used to help these kids along.  Why raise and have money in the coffers if it is not going to be used.  

Just my 2 cents. 

As usual 

These are the opinions of GOO nothing more nothing less.  You can take them or leave them. In the grand scheme of things it really does not matter 

GOO OUT> :ph34r:

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     You want to make freestyle more popular?  Then have more tournaments everywhere.  The problem is that everyone wants to make the tournament a money maker.  I understand that is how you convince a school to hold a tournament.  But why do they have to be at a school?  In NKY I don't know of any freestyle tournaments.  When you ask a kid who is not very interested in freestyle to travel 2 hours or more to compete it usually wont happen.  

     Maybe if we can get some of the freelance wrestling trainers/clubs that have their own facility to hold tournaments with little to no entry fee then we can get more kids involved.  Once they get the USA card then all insurance is covered.  Find officials that would donate time to officiate for free or little cost.  Make the tournament short. Heck if you have a large barn where you can get one or two mats down hold a tournament there.  Set it up like the Youth state if you have to.  Have the kids weigh in and separate weight classes that way.  Sell shirts and other trinkets to make a little money.  That way the parents/kids don't have to if they can't or don't want to spend tons of money.  

     Yeah I know "But the competition wont be that great".  Who cares its about getting these kids interested and having fun while they wrestle.  We have so many great minds and promoters in the wrestling community I know we could get something like this done.  I am not one of them I can't sell water to a man dying of thirst. Here in NkY why not ask Spatola to do something like this.  Heck he may even be able to get more kids to join his training facility. 

I don't know maybe i'm crazy or just loosing my mind to old age. Why could this not work.  "if you build it they will come" Maybe not many at first but gotta start somewhere. 

Always remember its all about the kids and for the kids. 

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My kid is coming late to this party and we were unfortunately one of those families who didn’t pay the deposit, not out of spite but simply because we didn’t have it at the time. We are not opposed to paying our way but it’s unfortunate that if there is no team (schoolboy, cadet or junior) that a goal my kid set to try and get selected  will not come to pass. He loves to wrestle. Loves to learn. Gets his butt handed to him often but going to Fargo would have broadened his horizons.

Our high school program went through a coaching change and neither the previous or new coach pushed off season wrestling at all. We just found out about camps last year. Found out about Fargo when I read about it on this forum the week of. 

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11 hours ago, grappler-of-old said:

     $400 may not seem much to some of you but to many it is a significant amount.  The reason Basketball is building in numbers is because the AAU teams have sponsors and the kids pay little to nothing to belong on those teams.  Extreme rural and inner city kids (which is where the majority of the lower income families live), have problems with any type of money going out for an extracurricular activity that one of their children will compete in.  I definitely don't know the answer to this but helping those that are interested is surely the beginning.  I know many will say "they only need to ask" or "they can go out and raise the money."  One even though they have low incomes they are not proud of it and don't want everyone to know and two who are they going to raise the money from?  Those that they know are usually low income families also and they don't have the knowhow to ask companies or businesses, who they in themselves will be skeptical as to what the donation is actually being used for.  

     I don't know the financial limitations of Ky USA wrestling but if there is any money available then it should be used to help these kids along.  Why raise and have money in the coffers if it is not going to be used.  

Just my 2 cents. 

As usual 

These are the opinions of GOO nothing more nothing less.  You can take them or leave them. In the grand scheme of things it really does not matter 

GOO OUT> :ph34r:

I don't think Ive heard anyone isay $400 isn't a lot of money.  

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On 5/18/2018 at 9:59 PM, REscalera said:

  And it certainly isn't because we lack talent.  We just lack the talent that is willing to pay $400

I'm more than willing to pay the $400 because I know the positive impact it will have long term.  But because others don't see it that way they don't see the value........

These two comments sound as if it is not that much money. 

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   The way I see it Ky is in a situation between the HAVES and the HAVE NOTS.  What I mean by that is that we have several who are striving for national recognition and glory and many who are not close to that level.  

     What we need to strive for FIRST is to get somewhere in between.  We are trying to jump straight to the top as a state.  We expect everyone to strive to be the best in the nation when for most that is not possible.  We have to play the cards we are dealt.  And we are dealt with kids who have not been wrestling since they were 4 years old.  Most are starting in 7th or 8th grade. (Which is earlier than just 20 years ago when most were starting in High School).  To do this we have to get their whole family involved.  When a parent has 4 kids and one wants $400 to participate in one event this does not translate into value for the family.  Heck I had that problem with GOO JR.  His sister was being left out with the cost of USA cards, tournaments and wrestling camps.  We could not sacrifice family vacations for GOO JR.  

     If we can make freestyle affordable and easy to get to then we get more wrestlers involved and families involved.  Then they will see and be willing to sacrifice a little more towards there kid's wrestling career.  Then as a collective we can help those who are financially unable.  We will have a larger well to pull from.  More families willing to help with cost and travel. 

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1 hour ago, grappler-of-old said:

   The way I see it Ky is in a situation between the HAVES and the HAVE NOTS.  What I mean by that is that we have several who are striving for national recognition and glory and many who are not close to that level.  

     What we need to strive for FIRST is to get somewhere in between.  We are trying to jump straight to the top as a state.  We expect everyone to strive to be the best in the nation when for most that is not possible.  We have to play the cards we are dealt.  And we are dealt with kids who have not been wrestling since they were 4 years old.  Most are starting in 7th or 8th grade. (Which is earlier than just 20 years ago when most were starting in High School).  To do this we have to get their whole family involved.  When a parent has 4 kids and one wants $400 to participate in one event this does not translate into value for the family.  Heck I had that problem with GOO JR.  His sister was being left out with the cost of USA cards, tournaments and wrestling camps.  We could not sacrifice family vacations for GOO JR.  

     If we can make freestyle affordable and easy to get to then we get more wrestlers involved and families involved.  Then they will see and be willing to sacrifice a little more towards there kid's wrestling career.  Then as a collective we can help those who are financially unable.  We will have a larger well to pull from.  More families willing to help with cost and travel. 

Being a father with 5 kiddos I know exactly what you're speaking about when it comes to spending $400 on 1 event.  However, I also know that there are ways to raise money as opposed to thinking someone owes you something and expecting it for free just because.  Why in the heck would anyone expect $400 to try out a sport to see if they like it.  Even worse why would anyone give away $400 to someone to see if they like it.  I can't wrap my mind around either.  

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Today was a great day. We had a solid turnout, and even saw some state champs compete against each other. There were a gang of state placers competing against each other as well. I can’t speak on the other issues of dispute in this thread, but I do know it was a great day of competitive wrestling in front of a few college coaches who were in attendance. 

For what it’s worth, it’s been my personal experience that in order to get sponsors, sponsors need to know about and have tad of passion for the sport. Not many local businesses/sponsors are as familiar with wrestling like they are for football, basketball, and baseball, regardless of our progression.

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8 hours ago, grappler-of-old said:

These two comments sound as if it is not that much money. 

When taken out of context, I can understand how one might take it that way. 

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10 hours ago, matreturn said:

My kid is coming late to this party and we were unfortunately one of those families who didn’t pay the deposit, not out of spite but simply because we didn’t have it at the time. We are not opposed to paying our way but it’s unfortunate that if there is no team (schoolboy, cadet or junior) that a goal my kid set to try and get selected  will not come to pass. He loves to wrestle. Loves to learn. Gets his butt handed to him often but going to Fargo would have broadened his horizons.

Our high school program went through a coaching change and neither the previous or new coach pushed off season wrestling at all. We just found out about camps last year. Found out about Fargo when I read about it on this forum the week of. 

Go to central or southeast regionals next weekend.  If he places top 4 he qualifies for Fargo......i believe.  

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GOO - just a couple follow ups to your questions and good suggestions. The state freestyle/greco tournament was held at Campbell county the last couple years. Attendance was so so at best. We didn’t see many “extra” NKY kids show up. As for officials volunteering, Garrett Pikul, Jim Hardin, and Toska Adams all donate a ton of their time for events all around the state (and country for that matter; heck I guess even world) and definitely do their part as officials to promote the Olympic styles. They even went out of their way to reach out to me to volunteer for the All Star match. Can’t say enough about these folks. 

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I was pretty sure the state FS tourney was held at campbell for a few year.  But what about the rest of the season.  A kid hears state tourney and if he never wrestled it before thinks "I can't compete there".  I was speaking more of tourneys kids can get there feet wet at.  

I know that there are tons of people already donating time, and I did not mean to act as if there were not. I'm sorry if it came across that way.  I've been beating my head against a wall to get kids to wrestle FS and the two things they tell me.  "We can't get there" and "we don't have the money". 10-15 years ago I took these kids and helped get money for them, but am unable to do that anymore. 

I would love for it to become popular again like when I was a kid and Joe Neely had his AAU program and there were 50+ kids from NKY wrestling, There was a tourney almost every week either in NKY or Cincy.  

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