CoachC

KY/USA Freestyle & Greco State Tournament

Recommended Posts

The KY/USA Freestyle & Greco State Tournament will be this Saturday May 19th. THIS TOURNAMENT IS OPEN TO ALL IN STATE WRESTLERS WITH A FULL USA MEMBERSHIP!!

The tournament will be held at Taylor Co. Highschool. Due to circumstances beyond our control, we are unable to access the football stadium. I and KY/USA Wrestling sincerely apologize for this. The tournament will be live on trackcast.

This tournament is a requirement for all national teams.

Register on track here:

http://www.trackwrestling.com/registration/BasicPreReg1.jsp?tournamentGroupId=51724132

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We will pass on the breakfast. Already spent more time eating pancakes then on the mat at prior events. Better use of a Saturday then 5 hours on the road for a 2-3 man “bracket” and a medal. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Ranger123 said:

We will pass on the breakfast. Already spent more time eating pancakes then on the mat at prior events. Better use of a Saturday then 5 hours on the road for a 2-3 man “bracket” and a medal. 

I'm unclear if these comments are directed toward the people not showing up or the people putting on the tournament. :unsure:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, ccbcdeke said:

I'm unclear if these comments are directed toward the people not showing up or the people putting on the tournament. :unsure:

As a coach, parent of a nationally competitive wrestler, AND USA board member I should be included on both sides of the fence. Apparently I have been mistaken on one of those roles. 

So to answer your questions both. Not all that interested in supporting these events and at this point I’m not encouraging kids to attend. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My 2 cents. I am a wrestling parent, I am not a USA board member. I have a completely different stake in what happens in state. Freestyle is the style that females will wrestle in college and this time of year is a more relaxed part of the year to continue training. While I don't know the inner workings of the board, my parent point of view is to give support as much as possible to our state tournaments. 

While we do travel out of state in off-season, it is done for the bigger numbers in female tournaments, we still encourage all the girls to attend the in state tournies. Hopefully, one day Kentucky can do the things that other states are doing. If I find reasons not to help it or keep hoping it will then that day won't happen. I do see lots of support from varying people around the state and for those THANK YOU.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Ranger123 said:

As a coach, parent of a nationally competitive wrestler, AND USA board member I should be included on both sides of the fence. Apparently I have been mistaken on one of those roles. 

So to answer your questions both. Not all that interested in supporting these events and at this point I’m not encouraging kids to attend. 

That clears it up...thanks. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
58 minutes ago, ccbcdeke said:

That clears it up...thanks. :)

We have talked plenty of times and you know I feel about this situation. But I feel like I’ve been swimming upstream on this matter for a number of years. Find me someone in this state who has put more time and energy into the Olympic styles over the last 5 years. It seems obvious to me that my input/support is not all that valuable. That’s fine. But when my family and the kids I coach get screwed by it I take it very personal. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here is our response.

The requirements for all dual teams are listed on this website. These were approved by Ranger123, at last year's meeting, and in emails prior to them being posted. Once the qualifier was complete, there were 5 kids that filed paperwork showing interest in being on the team. Of those 5 only 2 paid deposits. After that there was no paperwork filled in form of petition or otherwise with the state. I continued to communicate with Ranger about the schoolboy dual team. He sent a list of people that had shown interest. Still no paperwork or deposits from anyone. This went on for 2 weeks. I last communicated with Ranger on Sunday April 22nd. This is the communication to him, and I quote.
"We will take deposits until the end of the tournament this Saturday at Oldham Co. The entry fees to these tournaments are not refundable. We also have to reserve rooms before we enter, and order gear for those who don't have it. If we don't have deposits, we won't be taking a team"
His response was, and I quote.
"I will see what I can do this week"
Of all the kids on the list that were interested in being in the dual team, only 1 was at the tournament in Oldham Co.
This deadline was put in place due to the fact that there was a non-refundable $1500.00 entry fee due by May 1st.  
Not only that, but ALL wrestlers are required to wear matching singlets. And these singlets are personalized. This was also at Rangers request. You can see from my communication with Ranger that there are a lot of things that have to be paid for. What is not mentioned in that communication, is that we also have to pay for an official to be there or pay a $500.00 penalty for each style.
And with no expression of interest by simply filling a petition for a spot, with a deposit. It's not wise to spend all of this money to make this happen on a team that only exists in theory 
We fund these teams very heavily. And absolutely want them to participate. Just not to the extent that we are willing to sacrifice loosing several thousand dollars.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

True. All true information complete with quotes. But let’s share all the information. 

You are correct on our last communication   Was April 22.  Huh.  So not time between April 22 and May 17 to officially let the coach know there would not be a team?  The coach who did not seek out that position, but was ASKED to coach this team. Side note, Coach Livingston and the McCracken County crew did a great job coaching this team last year and I was more than happy to play a support role again this year. But you asked me to lead the team so I scheduled time off work among other family schedule changes to coach this team.  But I guess I am 4+ hours away, hard to get that message across the state.  

As for confirmations and deposits, that is quite funny.  I’ve never been part of Team Ky where anywhere near a full lineup was confirmed and paid 6-8 weeks ahead of time. Never.  That includes schoolboys duals, MS folkstyle national duals, HS scholastic duals  Never.  Amazing “we” have decided to put our foot down for a developmental age group in a style we are trying to develop.  And speaking of MS folkstyle duals.  Another event supported and organized under the Ky USA umbrella. That team was free to the participants. Yes Free.  A similarly supported team was the HS scholastic dual team.  I believe those kids were charged $130.  But this developmental team where we are trying to build interest and participation in the Olympic styles is $400???  Explain that one. $270 for an extra singlet and couple nights in a hotel? Not buying that.  

As for lack of deposits please explain why I would write you a check for a $200 deposit for my kid when he is reusing his gear and would never owe anywhere near that amount?  Is Ky USA looking for a loan from board members or what?  There were at least 3-4 kids in our initial lineup that did NOT need to pay a deposit because they did not need gear.  

Come on.  Really?  Losing thousands of dollars?  Entry fee and officials is the same whether we take a full lineup or forfeit 10 weights.  Gear is the only risk. And that is pretty simple.  If a kid doesn’t put deposit early enough they don’t get name on singlets.  

 

Bottom line is this.  As I talked to multiple people trying to recruit a full roster, the consistent message was that no one believes the organization is 100% behind this team.  I’m sure you are behind the cadet team.  

 

Before I close this short story, let’s go back to that board meeting.  We sat there for multiple hours and planned out a lot of different things.  As far as I know very little actually happened.  We were supposed to market and promote the schoolboy team at folkstyle events all season.  I never saw it.  We were supposed to set up some centralized training centers (RTC type) to get the best kids training together.  I haven’t heard about any of that happening after providing a few great options.  We were supposed to have some fundraising opportunities to help families offset the costs of these teams.  I haven’t heard about any of this either.  Maybe I’m just clueless.  I know I missed a meeting, but when you text the group on a Friday night about a Sunday meeting it is difficult to always make that happen.

Under the current structure and leadership, I resign from my position as cadet/junior/schoolboy leader (whatever I’m listed as at this point).

Jason Moore

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I did forget one note.  Given the great concern for wise use of funds, did we really need to spend a few thousand dollars on a trailer to move mats a couple times a year?  My guess is that is pretty handy to have around the house when you need to transport something.

Hope you guys enjoy that extra couple thousand dollars in the budget this year.  Perfect timing to plan a killer July 4 party or pick up a few beverages at Buffalo Wild Wings in Fargo.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

WOW.  They really bought a trailer to haul mat's?  That sounds like a good use of USA money.  I might have used that money to get a young group of wrestler exposed to larger national events.  All I hear about is growing the sport of wrestling in this state and getting kids involved in offseason tournaments.  Especially, exposure to freestyle and greco.  I remember (Coach Moore, Coach Roth, and myself) taking 11 kids to the same National Duals this thread is talking about.  None of use knew much about freestyle or greco.  I think only two of the kids had wrestled a freestyle match in their life.  Our kids took a butt kicking, but it got these kids exposed to these type of tournaments.  I also believe it helped mold these kids into some pretty good high school wrestlers.  More than half of these guys earned scholarships to wrestle at the next level.

Bradley Miller

Brandon Miller

Shay Horton

Blake Roth

Ryan Moore

Brady Wells

Mason Smith

Roger Young

Blake Denny

Chance Lanham

Ray Karl Ervin

 

If it is a money issue, there are a ton of people in this state willing to help out.  I know this because every year Ranger and I put on the Kentucky All-Star tournament.  It's amazing the support we receive from people every year.  I think most people in the state appreciate the effort that is given from multiple people in the state to grow wrestling.  Fundraising was also mentioned.  Did we even ask people to participate?  

If growing the sport is the purpose, then it seems like there could have been more effort in making this trip happen for these kids. 

 

 

 

image1.jpeg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the attitude in this board is contributing to the lack of participation in our state.  If anyone thinks $400.00 is an outrageous cost to participate in a national dual, they are misinformed.  When that message is coming from an individual who is viewed as a leader within KY wrestling it's irresponsible.  Being frustrated is ok.  Allowing your frustration to tear down what little we have is not.  

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
30 minutes ago, REscalera said:

I think the attitude in this board is contributing to the lack of participation in our state.  If anyone thinks $400.00 is an outrageous cost to participate in a national dual, they are misinformed.  When that message is coming from an individual who is viewed as a leader within KY wrestling it's irresponsible.  Being frustrated is ok.  Allowing your frustration to tear down what little we have is not.  

I never said $400 was outrageous, but it’s not insignificant for every family either. And when we are talking about trying to fill a roster, especially one that all of a sudden has a strict time/number mandate, cost is a factor. And I will say when families are prioritizing limited resources $400 compared to free is outrageous. My understanding is one of our priorities is to increase fs/gr participation.  Making freestyle team $400 and folkstyle Team free that seems constradictory to that philosophy.

The cost is just one single factor in this discussion. Glad you chimed in. You can give opinion on whether our state is helping develop fs/gr wrestlers or even boost participation?  Yeah we kind of know the answer to that since Zeke went to Indiana to get his training because what KY provided was inadequate. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Ranger123 said:

I never said $400 was outrageous, but it’s not insignificant for every family either. And when we are talking about trying to fill a roster, especially one that all of a sudden has a strict time/number mandate, cost is a factor. And I will say when families are prioritizing limited resources $400 compared to free is outrageous. 

The cost is just one single factor in this discussion. Glad you chimed in. You can give opinion on whether our state is helping develop fs/gr wrestlers or even boost participation?  Yeah we kind of know the answer to that since Zeke went to Indiana to get his training because what KY provided was inadequate. 

I find it outrageous that anyone would expect to be able to participate for free.  

As for Zeke's training, aside from KY, he has spent time in Missouri, Iowa, Colorado and Indiana for training in both styles.  The status of KY wrestling had nothing to do to influence that.  It was more so to broaden his exposure to the different styles and different coaching perspectives as well as provide him with different  training partners.  An approach to training that I feel is not a bad reflection on those here locally but rather why not take advantage of all resources available.  

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, REscalera said:

I find it outrageous that anyone would expect to be able to participate for free.  

As for Zeke's training, aside from KY, he has spent time in Iowa, Colorado and Indiana for training in both styles.  The status of KY wrestling had nothing to do to influence that.  It was more so to broaden his exposure to the different styles and different coaching perspectives as well as provide him with different  training partners.  An approach to training that I feel is not a bad reflection on those here locally but rather why not take advantage of all resources available.  

Come on dude. You know Ky wrestling better than that. The proportion of the state that does much traveling is limited so when they compare the cost it reflects on what is being valued. 

I understand you still live down there and don’t want to upset the union co apple cart, but don’t act like training fs in Ky would have been just as effective for zeke’s prep for Fargo last year. If that’s the case I will come on here and wholly apologize when we crank out a dozen or so AAs in the next couple years. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, Ranger123 said:

Come on dude. You know Ky wrestling better than that. The proportion of the state that does much traveling is limited so when they compare the cost it reflects on what is being valued. 

 

If one doesn't see the value in $400 they're not going to magically value it if it's free.  Furthermore if a board member is degrading it's value how can we expect others to pay?

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
29 minutes ago, Ranger123 said:

 

I understand you still live down there and don’t want to upset the union co apple cart, but don’t act like training fs in Ky would have been just as effective for zeke’s prep for Fargo last year. If that’s the case I will come on here and wholly apologize when we crank out a dozen or so AAs in the next couple years. 

You obviously missed my point.  I don't find training in one place an effective approach in either style, folk or free.  Like I said Zeke has trained both styles in MO, IN, IA and CO along with his training in KY.  Union County is going to win there 4th consecutive state title next season, which obviously shows that they have some pretty good coaching.  Zeke still went elsewhere.  Why limit yourself?

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I never downgraded the value of the dual team. Quite the opposite. Hence my frustration when the decision was made to cancel the team. 

2 hours ago, REscalera said:

If one doesn't see the value in $400 they're not going to magically value it if it's free.  Furthermore if a board member is degrading it's value how can we expect others to pay?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Richard not sure you understand what is going on here. What I am devaluing is our fs state tournament at this point. Why would I support this event when kids have done their part to meet the criteria (however inconvenient and of little value) to be on the dual team only to have the team cancelled. At that point I don’t see value in the upcoming event and do not see a reason to support it when the organization hasn’t supported these kids. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Ranger123 said:

Richard not sure you understand what is going on here. What I am devaluing is our fs state tournament at this point. Why would I support this event when kids have done their part to meet the criteria (however inconvenient and of little value) to be on the dual team only to have the team cancelled. At that point I don’t see value in the upcoming event and do not see a reason to support it when the organization hasn’t supported these kids. 

I understand and share in your frustration that there isn't a dual team.  But that frustration isn't anything new.  KY as a whole struggles when it comes to putting together a full dual team let alone a competitive one.  And it certainly isn't because we lack talent.  We just lack the talent that is willing to pay $400.  My point from the beginning though was just that I felt like your messages were doing more harm than good and I've always known you to be above that.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, REscalera said:

I understand and share in your frustration that there isn't a dual team.  But that frustration isn't anything new.  KY as a whole struggles when it comes to putting together a full dual team let alone a competitive one.  And it certainly isn't because we lack talent.  We just lack the talent that is willing to pay $400.  My point from the beginning though was just that I felt like your messages were doing more harm than good and I've always known you to be above that.  

I don’t know that I am always above that; I quite often speak up when I get frustrated. The reasons I speak up publicly are:

1) this state isn’t making much progress and as you mentioned there are few who are putting in the effort to move it forward

2) we spend hours and hours talking about what we should do and little to nothing actually happens

3) Essentially all wrestling outside the Official KHSAA season is under the guidance of KY USA wrestling; so the distribution of funds to these teams is a board issue and should be in line with our goals

4) why am I spending my time working on the board providing my energy and input to essentially have those efforts crapped on. 

5) i sure hope the cadet team has close to a full lineup for their dual team

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now