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Nkawtg

Time to go to 10 weight classes

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30 minutes ago, Ranger123 said:

Heck if forfeits are the issue, I could probably make a pretty good argument that there are just as many holes in the upper weights as the lowers. I know our team historically has a tougher time filling the big boy weights than little guys.  Could also argue if college doesn’t have a 220 range weight why does HS. 

The upper weights not only have just as many holes, but also, overall, arguably less depth and talent.  And that's not just here in KY.  It's true even in states where wrestling is more popular.  

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1 hour ago, Ranger123 said:

  Could also argue if college doesn’t have a 220 range weight why does HS. 

Giving up almost almost 100lbs to anyone in wrestling is not safe.  We would have to reduce the Hwt maximum back to my day when it was 250 Max. 

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3 minutes ago, grappler-of-old said:

Giving up almost almost 100lbs to anyone in wrestling is not safe.  We would have to reduce the Hwt maximum back to my day when it was 250 Max. 

When I wrestled we had 167, 185 and hwt max 250 

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There are tons of freshmen throughout the state that were always too small to be able to compete in any other sport and a high school coach told them they could compete to be varsity right away because they need a 106, and then wrestling changes that kid’s life. This is exactly how I got involved in the sport, and it has changed my life and continues to do so. 

 

Robbing smaller kids of an opportunity is far from the answer to any problems we as a wrestling community may have. 

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16 hours ago, 385 said:

There are tons of freshmen throughout the state that were always too small to be able to compete in any other sport and a high school coach told them they could compete to be varsity right away because they need a 106, and then wrestling changes that kid’s life. This is exactly how I got involved in the sport, and it has changed my life and continues to do so. 

 

Robbing smaller kids of an opportunity is far from the answer to any problems we as a wrestling community may have. 

385 that is almost exactly what happened to me.  I was an OK basketball player but at 4'11 95lbs I could not compete at high school level.  

Was told wrestling had a 98lb wt. class and I could make the team right away.  Now 40 years later I am still involved with this great sport. Otherwise I would have had to wait till my Jr. year before I weighted enough for 112 wt. class. 

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 I like the idea of proposed alignment with college. I would drop the 106 lb class though and make it 110. Get rid of 113 for a 118 weight then into the 20's. You still have a lower weight for the little guys and you give older wrestlers more of an opportunity to fill that weight. Best of both worlds.

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19 minutes ago, 119Rider said:

 I like the idea of proposed alignment with college. I would drop the 106 lb class though and make it 110. Get rid of 113 for a 118 weight then into the 20's. You still have a lower weight for the little guys and you give older wrestlers more of an opportunity to fill that weight. Best of both worlds.

I agree. I don't see why we aren't exactly aligned with college. add 220, 119 and 113, maybe 106. 

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How about 11 weight classes? Perhaps will reduce the number of tiebreaker situations in dual meets as well by having a odd number of classes. 

106 
 - 8lb difference
114
 - 10lb difference
124
 - 10lb
134
- 10lb
144
 - 12lb
156
 - 12lb
168
 - 12lb
180
 - 15lb
195
 - 25lb
220
 - 65lb
285

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1 hour ago, DrBaker said:

I agree. I don't see why we aren't exactly aligned with college. add 220, 119 and 113, maybe 106. 

 

1 hour ago, 119Rider said:

 I like the idea of proposed alignment with college. I would drop the 106 lb class though and make it 110. Get rid of 113 for a 118 weight then into the 20's. You still have a lower weight for the little guys and you give older wrestlers more of an opportunity to fill that weight. Best of both worlds.

The problem is if you get rid of 106 how many kids do we lose state wide? there are several who barely weigh 80 lbs already wrestling 106 now add another 4 pounds? You may think only 4 lbs but for a little guy 4 lbs is like 20 lbs to a 160, it would be like a ton. if anything add a class in some of the heavier areas

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Adding the 4 pounds gives upper class men the opportunity to make 110. I doubt we have very many high school wrestler at 80 pounds. We have middle school wrestlers at this weight which would keep them in middle school tournaments until they develop fully.

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bdl;  I think the problem most see is that we already have to many wt. classes.  We need to reduce the number not increase the number.  Its a slippery slope.  You want to have enough weight classes to accommodate high school wrestlers but not to many to hurt the smaller schools without big squads, as to reduce forfeits at wt. classes.  

I kind of like Thoman's proposal.  keeps the lowest and highest wt. classes. 

I think dropping 106 is a huge mistake.  Your under the assumption that kids this small will just wait for their chance.  Maybe if their school has a JV squad that competes every weekend, but my guess is those teams that already have trouble filling weights classes don't have a JV schedule and many probably don't have a Middle school squad. How many JV tournaments are there in the state of KY?  I know of only 2 or 3 that happen here in NKy. 

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I think that going by 10's (100, 110, 120, 130, etc.) should be considered.  If that was in place kids wouldn’t be able to drop weight classes as much.  The way it is set up now a kid that is wrestling 138 at the start of the year could be tempted to drop to 134 after Christmas, because it’s only four pounds.  If you went by tens and eliminated the growth allowance you could eliminate a lot of those temptation. Age shouldn't be a factor for cutting weights.  Caldwell had an 8th grader finish third at state in 1982.  

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tekejew I agree with your point about kids dropping weight classes. But the past(pre-descent program) has shown us, kids will drop no matter what it takes. 10 pounds is a lot. 4 pounds is too tempting also. These kids need to be ready right out of high school to hit the mat collegiately, that's the biggest push for the classes I proposed. I also think that GOO point about dropping a weight class is a huge mistake. 106/113/120 have perennially been a breeding ground for young up and coming talent, why would we ever want to hinder that? I definitely think a better job needs to be done between football and wrestling in regards to getting big boys to wrestle.

 

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I kinda wish we had 15 weight classes. Or crunch the lower together and make one somewhere around 250. So at least if your kid is 240 he isn't wrestling 285, but that's just me. I think you have some teams in some years can never have little guys and others big guys. This year for us it was the 2 opens in the middle so I think its a year to year thing. But with my thoughts and a dollar you might can get some coffee.

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With the maximum weight for a Heavyweight getting higher every year (from 250 to now 285). There was a need for another wt class around 215, but I don't think we need more weight classes in the heavier weights.  In general after the top 4 the skill level of those weights (180 and up) diminish greatly, unlike the middle or lower wt classes. 

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9 hours ago, Bulldoglife said:

106 ,113,121,130, 142,157, 172, 190,230, 285

An almost 60 lb difference between two weight classes (which coaches are allowed to bump their kids up) 172-230

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I know that many would like to have an odd number of wt classes but I actually think Minn has it right 12 wt classes seem to be the number. Most high school kids fall within the 125 to 160 pound range that is where the majority of the weight classes should be.  

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On 3/6/2018 at 1:20 AM, grappler-of-old said:

I have mentioned this in the past.  I was utterly against the 32 man bracket at the state tournament.  Fought tooth and nail against it.  They claimed that it would help wrestling increase teams in the state.  I didn't think so.  Guess what!! I was wrong.  The 32 man bracket has caused the number of teams in KY to double since it was adopted. 

Proof is in the numbers.  I still don't really understand it but its the truth and I don't want to do anything that will cause numbers to decrease no matter how I feel about it, because I also liked the 16 man bracket better.  

KHSAA holds a swimming state tournament that has numerous underclassmen in it.  

Getting rid of lower wt. class will lessen the numbers.  What is a kid who is 100lbs or less going to do?  Wait until he is a Sr. and weigh 110 before competing?  No they will seek out another sport. 

Heck in my day (way back just after the dinos) We had 12 wt. classes and the lowest was 98lbs.  (98,105,112,119,126,132,138,145,155,167,185,250)

Just make 106 a JV weight. NY still has 98 for that reason. 

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3 hours ago, Nkawtg said:

Just make 106 a JV weight. NY still has 98 for that reason. 

nkawtg;

You keep saying make it a JV weight but what you don't realize is that most teams don't have a JV team.  Those that do don't wrestle in that many JV tournaments during the year.  That would limit the number of matches a kid 100 lbs gets a year and they would move onto something different and leave wrestling all together. 

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3 hours ago, Nkawtg said:

Just make 106 a JV weight. NY still has 98 for that reason. 

Not sure what your NY reference means. They don’t have it for JV purposes only. Ask my buddy Yianni Diakomihalis if his first state title was JV. 

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10 hours ago, Ranger123 said:

Not sure what your NY reference means. They don’t have it for JV purposes only. Ask my buddy Yianni Diakomihalis if his first state title was JV. 

You can’t call 106 a varsity weight in Kentucky when it’s dominated with 8th graders and freshman. Of course we need a place for under sized kids to compete. They should compete with other under sized kids. You can’t just maintain a class where you need 8th graders to fill out a bracket. 

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25 minutes ago, Nkawtg said:

You can’t call 106 a varsity weight in Kentucky when it’s dominated with 8th graders and freshman. Of course we need a place for under sized kids to compete. They should compete with other under sized kids. You can’t just maintain a class where you need 8th graders to fill out a bracket. 

So what if it's dominated by freshman or even 8th graders.  As mentioned before, Freshman (and some 8th graders) have an impact on pretty much every other sport outside of football at the varsity level.  I've seen freshmen and 8th grade pitchers start games in the regional baseball tourney, Sweet 16 basketball tourney, Tennis, swimming, etc.  Being a Freshman or 8th grader should not push you back to JV status.  You mention NY....99lbs is not a JV weight.  They crown a state champion at that weight.  Nothing in those results designating it as a JV only.

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38 minutes ago, Nkawtg said:

You can’t call 106 a varsity weight in Kentucky when it’s dominated with 8th graders and freshman. Of course we need a place for under sized kids to compete. They should compete with other under sized kids. You can’t just maintain a class where you need 8th graders to fill out a bracket. 

How can you say this? We have several 10th, 11th and 12th in 106 this yaer. Look how they stack against the 8th and 9th graders.How would those guys fair in a heavier weight class. If anything 106 is showing we are doing something right on the middle school level.The smaller kids are getting Stronger and more technical. I find the 106lbers to be a fun match to watch.

106a.PNG

106b.PNG

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2 hours ago, Nkawtg said:

You can’t call 106 a varsity weight in Kentucky when it’s dominated with 8th graders and freshman. Of course we need a place for under sized kids to compete. They should compete with other under sized kids. You can’t just maintain a class where you need 8th graders to fill out a bracket. 

Last time I recall freshman is a HS age group. And while there are times when the ms kids are needed to fill out the brackets there are also many times when those MS kids are just flat out better than any of the HS kids and often earn those spots. 

 

You still didn’t explain that NY reference. 

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