Time to go to 10 weight classes

[Nkawtg 137]

http://intermatwrestle.com/articles/19842?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=facebook

 

It’s way past due. I’d rather see a healthier sport that’s smaller than what we have now. You can still grow the sport and have fewer weight classes, especially when most schools are forfeiting multiple classes. 

[Nkawtg 137]

5 of the 8 state placers at 106 this year in Kentucky were not even in high school. The other three were freshman. Why in the world is the KHSAA sponsoring a varsity state meet with 13-15 year olds competing?

[GentleBeard 145]

35 minutes ago, Nkawtg said:

5 of the 8 state placers this year in Kentucky we’re not even in high school. The other three were freshman. Why in the world is the KHSAA sponsoring a varsity state meet with 13-15 year olds competing?

Kentucky had more than just 8 placers

[Nkawtg 137]

28 minutes ago, GentleBeard said:

Kentucky had more than just 8 placers

Whoops. Typo. Forgot to include “106”, which is the first weight to be eliminated. The article mentions 195 as well. 

[Alf 43]

Wrestled with a guy who was 103 his senior year. It not always 8th graders and freshman.

[Nike Man 292]

I don’t believe that Nkawtg is just talking about 106. Just the idea of cutting high school weights down to 10 weight classes would absolutely make things more competitive. No doubt about it. Does is build the sport, one could argue either side. It’s similar to the argument that a 16 man State Tournament is better than a 32 man State Tournament. I can see both sides of either argument. My position overall, let’s make this sport more competitive. Not sure I completely agree with just 10 weight classes, but 12 would be ok. I definitely hate a 32 man State Tournament. 16 would absolutely be great. Everyone knows an exception to the rule, but this is overall a good idea. 

[Ranger123 43]

So you want to eliminate a weight because of this year having a lot of talented young guys filling the weights for their HS team. Here is exactly why. Look at these kids who developed into some of the best in the state this past season.  Or we can just eliminate their opportunity to get on the mat and learn and develop.

 

[Ranger123 43]

1 minute ago, Nike Man said:

I don’t believe that Nkawtg is just talking about 106. Just the idea of cutting high school weights down to 10 weight classes would absolutely make things more competitive. No doubt about it. Does is build the sport, one could argue either side. It’s similar to the argument that a 16 man State Tournament is better than a 32 man State Tournament. I can see both sides of either argument. My position overall, let’s make this sport more competitive. Not sure I completely agree with just 10 weight classes, but 12 would be ok. I definitely hate a 32 man State Tournament. 16 would absolutely be great. Everyone knows an exception to the rule, but this is overall a good idea. 

The problem I have with this idea is the easy approach is to just cut out the little guys because “they are always filled with middle schoolers” or too many teams forfeit the lightest weights. The bottom line is we as coaches need to do a much better job to get kids out and fill those holes because cutting them out is NOT the answer.  If little old Walton Verona can field a full lineup then most everyone else should be able to do the same. These weights are some of the most talented wrestlers year in and year out. 

[Nike Man 292]

Coach, I don’t disagree with your philosophy. I’m just agreeing to the fact that if you squeeze 14 weight classes of participants into 12 weight classes of participants, you will have deeper more competitive weight classes (in theory.) I was a “little guy” pretty much my whole career. I’m not trying to squeeze those guys out. I’m just saying we could close the gap in the middle weight classes, tighten the gap up top as well, and put a couple of lower weight classes together to make some really crazy competitive weight classes. This is all just talk anyways. Why not run wild with it. Nothing is gonna change overnight. Just making some good conversation that doesn’t include massive people with massive agendas that like massive arguments. Wink. Lol.

[Ranger123 43]

Ha ha. I hear ya. But this one hits a little close to home. I’m with you on the 16 man bracket. 

[Nkawtg 137]

It’s utterly absurd to contest high school meets with middle schoolers at weight classes virtually free of upperclassmen.  Basketball has 5 starting positions and it’s extremely rare to see a freshman or sophomore competing at the varsity level. Meanwhile wrestling has 14 varsity positions. It’s ridiculous. 

I have no dog in the fight. I’m not biased. Of course fathers of kids wrestling in the lower weights will continue to argue for the weight’s inclusion. 

10 weight classes will enable competitive duals and not these painfully awful quads we have in Kentucky on school nights. 

Want to grow the sport?  Stop the madness that is 12 hour tournaments on weekends and get some duals going. If this makes sense in Minnesota, which is a much healthier wrestling state than Kentucky, it makes sense everywhere. 

[Nkawtg 137]

42 minutes ago, Nike Man said:

Coach, I don’t disagree with your philosophy. I’m just agreeing to the fact that if you squeeze 14 weight classes of participants into 12 weight classes of participants, you will have deeper more competitive weight classes (in theory.) I was a “little guy” pretty much my whole career. I’m not trying to squeeze those guys out. I’m just saying we could close the gap in the middle weight classes, tighten the gap up top as well, and put a couple of lower weight classes together to make some really crazy competitive weight classes. This is all just talk anyways. Why not run wild with it. Nothing is gonna change overnight. Just making some good conversation that doesn’t include massive people with massive agendas that like massive arguments. Wink. Lol.

I’m not sure it’s just talk. I think within 5-10 years for sure. 

[Nike Man 292]

12 hour tournaments have nothing to do with the number of weight classes, it has to do with coaches wanting to profit for their team off from their tournament by inviting multiple teams. I can undoubtedly have Kentucky’s toughest tournament/dual, and get it done before 4-5pm in one day. But most programs that are hosting, want to make a little money that day, so they get more involved with more teams. More teams=more kids, more parents, more $$. 

[Nike Man 292]

Teams, clubs, counties, states, whoever, can’t opperate without funds. If schools can’t fund it, our argument is debunked.

[Nkawtg 137]

52 minutes ago, Nike Man said:

12 hour tournaments have nothing to do with the number of weight classes, it has to do with coaches wanting to profit for their team off from their tournament by inviting multiple teams. I can undoubtedly have Kentucky’s toughest tournament/dual, and get it done before 4-5pm in one day. But most programs that are hosting, want to make a little money that day, so they get more involved with more teams. More teams=more kids, more parents, more $$. 

Ok, if you don’t see the issue with every Saturday from November to February being filled with wrestling tournaments because a team can’t get dual meets I don’t know what to tell you. 

[Nike Man 292]

What are you taking about? No need to tell me anything. I clearly stated that long ass tournaments and duals were simply a booster money making event. I didn’t spell it out, but come on. You are a graduate of the Citadel. Let’s read between the lines. 

[grappler-of-old 44]

I have mentioned this in the past.  I was utterly against the 32 man bracket at the state tournament.  Fought tooth and nail against it.  They claimed that it would help wrestling increase teams in the state.  I didn't think so.  Guess what!! I was wrong.  The 32 man bracket has caused the number of teams in KY to double since it was adopted. 

Proof is in the numbers.  I still don't really understand it but its the truth and I don't want to do anything that will cause numbers to decrease no matter how I feel about it, because I also liked the 16 man bracket better.  

KHSAA holds a swimming state tournament that has numerous underclassmen in it.  

Getting rid of lower wt. class will lessen the numbers.  What is a kid who is 100lbs or less going to do?  Wait until he is a Sr. and weigh 110 before competing?  No they will seek out another sport. 

Heck in my day (way back just after the dinos) We had 12 wt. classes and the lowest was 98lbs.  (98,105,112,119,126,132,138,145,155,167,185,250)

[grappler-of-old 44]

I will do some digging and see what grade the placers were back then.  

By the way basketball also has a JV team a Freshman team an 8th grade team and a 7th grade team along with non school leagues things we don't have in wrestling. 

Here is a thought instead of dual meats on weeknights have mini tournaments.  Invite 4 teams hold a 4 man bracket decide the winner and place the teams accordingly.  Everyone gets 1 or 2 matches that night. You can even combine wt classes if needed because everyone can go up one wt. class and most do it during dual to get matches anyway. 

[rjs4470 103]

9 hours ago, Nkawtg said:

It’s utterly absurd to contest high school meets with middle schoolers at weight classes virtually free of upperclassmen.  Basketball has 5 starting positions and it’s extremely rare to see a freshman or sophomore competing at the varsity level. Meanwhile wrestling has 14 varsity positions. It’s ridiculous. 

I have no dog in the fight. I’m not biased. Of course fathers of kids wrestling in the lower weights will continue to argue for the weight’s inclusion. 

10 weight classes will enable competitive duals and not these painfully awful quads we have in Kentucky on school nights. 

Want to grow the sport?  Stop the madness that is 12 hour tournaments on weekends and get some duals going. If this makes sense in Minnesota, which is a much healthier wrestling state than Kentucky, it makes sense everywhere. 

It is not extremely rare for freshman and sophomores to play varsity in other sports.  There are even more than a few 8th graders playing varsity in basketball, baseball,swimming etc.  

While I understand the desire to reduce forfeits, taking spots away is not good for the sport.  Pushing talented kids to JV and less opportunities to wrestle, pushes them out of the sport.

The article though isn’t really advocating eliminating weight classes completely.  Only possibly, during dual meets, if the teams agree, to make duals more competitive.  

[GentleBeard 145]

I think there should be 11 weigh classes in college - adding one around 220-230. I’d imagine it’s tough to get recruited as a 220 - though clearly not impossible. However, you’re still looking at either cutting 20+ pounds or gaining 30-40. Seems like it could be a tough decision. Also, having 11 weight classes in a dual meet would help mitigate going to criteria (even though it doesn’t happen often). One team will always have more wins than the other.

[ctown714 3]

Cutting out 106 would be a bad idea to me. Kind of on the same note as ranger, some of the most exciting and up and coming wrestlers hang out at 106 their first year or two of wrestling varsity.

[DrBaker 497]

1 hour ago, GentleBeard said:

I think there should be 11 weigh classes in college - adding one around 220-230. I’d imagine it’s tough to get recruited as a 220 - though clearly not impossible. However, you’re still looking at either cutting 20+ pounds or gaining 30-40. Seems like it could be a tough decision. Also, having 11 weight classes in a dual meet would help mitigate going to criteria (even though it doesn’t happen often). One team will always have more wins than the other.

College needs a 220 for sure. 

[chad.greenwell 21]

Question... I don't understand the angst against towards any of the 7th/8th graders. Can you explain why it is a problem? If they are good enough to qualify, they should be allowed to wrestle. 

[BigBossMan 21]

Competitiveness at state is no longer a glaring problem. Granted some draws are theoretically easier than others, but one loss can make it extremely difficult in a lot of brackets. In the end the state champ is the champ. The placers 2-8 however could be a toss up in just about any weight. Each year those factors are the same. On any given day it's any wrestler's mat, especially in high school. The facts are, kids are bigger these days, health studies are against cutting large amounts of weight. I have no problem with a middle school kid wrestling any weight class. If it is a safety issue I'm not going to let a kid get pummeled.  

I do believe a change could be made to keep so many late season shifts from happening that also would more closely align our graduates to collegiate weights. Modify the weight classes slightly. 

Weight Class Proposal

Current HS        Proposed HS           College

106                          106                         --

113                          113                         --

120                          120                         --

126                          127                        125  

132                          134                        133

138                          141                        141

145                          149                        149

152                          157                        157

160                          165                        165

170                          174                        174

182                          184                        184

195                          197                        197 

220                          225                         --

285                          285                         285

[Ranger123 43]

Heck if forfeits are the issue, I could probably make a pretty good argument that there are just as many holes in the upper weights as the lowers. I know our team historically has a tougher time filling the big boy weights than little guys.  Could also argue if college doesn’t have a 220 range weight why does HS.