Random Draw Table is out...

[supernat 11]

FYI

[supernat 11]

http://khsaa.org/sports/winter/wrestling/

 

Click on state tournament into. The link is under that tab. 

[Rtrburn76 13]

And once again you have the #1 .vs  #2 guys are wrestling in the quarters. Should be Seeded by region and then separated by rankings (Region Champ that's ranked the highest gets #1 spot, the next Region Champ that's next highest ranked gets the #32 spot) that Region to try to get the top 4 guys in the semi's. This has came up year after year, whats it gonna take to fix the issue.

 

[DrBaker 497]

There's a 50/50 shot to meet in the semis, if they both win. Seeding really needs to be done. 

[grappler-of-old 44]

I say it every year.  Ky seeds no state tournaments and never will.  You are guessing as to who are the number 1 and number 2. 

[plantmanky1 58]

22 minutes ago, grappler-of-old said:

I say it every year.  Ky seeds no state tournaments and never will.  You are guessing as to who are the number 1 and number 2. 

They are seeding football in 2018. 

[Rtrburn76 13]

Until the KHSAA figures out that they are the problem, Wrestling will always be limited in KY.

1st round of tournament is Sectionals with 8-12 teams feeding a Sectional; The 4 tops finishers advance to Regionals

2nd round/ 2 Sectionals feed each Regional (16 total State Regionals) ; Top 4 advance to a Semi State

3rd round/ 4 Regionals feed a Semi-state (4 total Semi-states); Top 4 advance to State

State 1st round Friday Night, Got to win Friday to get a chance to take a podium seat.

Saturday Night Finals...1 MAT UNDER THE LIGHTS!!!!!!

[grappler-of-old 44]

2 hours ago, Rtrburn76 said:

Until the KHSAA figures out that they are the problem, Wrestling will always be limited in KY.

1st round of tournament is Sectionals with 8-12 teams feeding a Sectional; The 4 tops finishers advance to Regionals

2nd round/ 2 Sectionals feed each Regional (16 total State Regionals) ; Top 4 advance to a Semi State

3rd round/ 4 Regionals feed a Semi-state (4 total Semi-states); Top 4 advance to State

State 1st round Friday Night, Got to win Friday to get a chance to take a podium seat.

Saturday Night Finals...1 MAT UNDER THE LIGHTS!!!!!!

The semi-state was tried ini 87,88.  Worst thing that ever happened to wrestling in KY. Was an 8 man bracket only one day state tourney. 

You can't have 4 Semi-states if you only have 4 regionals. There are only 8 regions right now.  You would have to break up the regions into sectionals and we already don't have enough teams in some regions. 

 

[Nathaniel Bryan 6]

9 hours ago, grappler-of-old said:

I say it every year.  Ky seeds no state tournaments and never will.  You are guessing as to who are the number 1 and number 2. 

State tennis has been seeded for a while.

Track and swimming both seed in regards to the people with the fastest times get put in the same heat, the slower times in a slower heat.

[Rtrburn76 13]

6 hours ago, grappler-of-old said:

The semi-state was tried ini 87,88.  Worst thing that ever happened to wrestling in KY. Was an 8 man bracket only one day state tourney. 

You can't have 4 Semi-states if you only have 4 regionals. There are only 8 regions right now.  You would have to break up the regions into sectionals and we already don't have enough teams in some regions. 

 

That's why I said 4 regions feed a semi state...there is no reason to have more than 8 teams at a region. 32 man non seeded bracket = a cluster #$_&. 

It's a general consensus that this system is severely flawed

[Rtrburn76 13]

If we as a community don't come together as a whole on this system sucks....they aren't going to change. But why do we seed any tournament or regions. Their seeded by recorded and head to head = same way rankings are compiled. 

[grappler-of-old 44]

I was against the 32 man bracket when we started it.  The reasoning for doing it was that more teams would qualify kids and therefore more schools would keep and start wrestling programs.  It has worked.  We have almost doubled the amount of teams in Kentucky with wrestling and the number of kids wrestling.  I for one could not stand having another 8 man bracket at the state tournament.  

KHSAA might like another 8 man bracket, less money because it would only be one day.  But then again less people would attend the tournament if it was an 8 man and little Johnny was not there wrestling.  

Regions are seeded because you want the best kids to qualify for the next tourney.  Many tourneys throughout the year are not completely seeded.  Many just separate the good wrestler.  

If I thought that the state tournament could actually be seeded I would be in favor of it, but I truthfully don't believe it is possible.  How many head to heads are there going to be between a kid from Western Ky (who spends a lot of the season in Tenn, and Mizz) with a kid from Nky who spends most of his season in Ohio? 

[grappler-of-old 44]

13 hours ago, plantmanky1 said:

They are seeding football in 2018. 

I wonder if teams like Highland in Nky will change their schedule next year.  They go to Ohio for the competition and lose many football games yet still come on top in the state tourney.  

[grappler-of-old 44]

I think that many have been spoiled by Rangers rankings.  What is going to happen when he decides he can't do them any longer?  We had rankings prior to Ranges and they were WAY off.  I don't think anyone will put the time he and his team do to make these rankings again once he stops doing them.  He has been fairly accurate the last decade which is why many are arguing for seeding the state tourney.  No one ever thought of such a thing until he came around and started doing a great job with them. 

But it wont be around forever. 

[rjs4470 103]

7 hours ago, grappler-of-old said:

I wonder if teams like Highland in Nky will change their schedule next year.  They go to Ohio for the competition and lose many football games yet still come on top in the state tourney.  

The way I understand it, is they are not seeding the whole playoffs.  They will only be seeding the semi-final round in each class, so that's not really an apples to apples comparison to the State Wrestling tourney. They will use some combination of the various ranking services that are out there to set the seeds.  Strength of schedule plays into all of those, so I don’t think teams will be rushing out to change their schedule in hopes they can pull a number one seed if they make they state semis.  

I think seeding does need to happen (and not necessarily the whole tourney....setting the top 4 or 8 and having the rest draw in based on region finish works for me).   And while rankings can be somewhat subjective, Trackwrestling is a great tool that needs to be utilized more, especially when running tourneys, so all the info needed for seeding is out there and readily available.  

Seeding doesn't solve everything, especially when the regions are as unbalanced as some are in terms of depth.  There are always the occasional region winners that would struggle to place in the toughest regions.  But it would be better than the current system.

[grappler-of-old 44]

I think I could live with top 4 regional winners seeded or at least separated.  I think you could disseminate the top 4 of each wt. class from the regional winners.  

[119Rider 61]

Seeding anything past the top four is virtually impossible given some regions are just tougher than others. If Region 6 has the #1,2, and 4 kids in the state, and Region 1 has #3, 7, and 8. Your system is already screwed because #3, and #2 could still meet in second round, and #4 might get the # 7 in the first round.

[dutch 178]

We do debate this every year.  My guess is we will continue to debate if for years to come.

The only point that I will make is that its not impossible to seed this tournament.  Every tournament during the season and every national tournament I have been to has some type of seeding.  If Virginia Beach, Flo, and Fargo can find a way, I'm sure we could figure it out for a 32-man bracket that has every result posted on track.

[BobcatWrestling 1]

The way Tennessee does it is that you have to be a returning medalist AND region champ to get seeded. If you were a state champ last year but finish 2nd in your region this year, sorry. Drawn in. 

[119Rider 61]

National tournaments are a different species entirely. They are not battling the issue of kids being from the same region and trying to separate them as well. If you want to see the tournament then you need to disregard the region the wrestler is from and seed top 8-16 whatever. Then blind draw the others in. This would do away with the random draw of region format that the state uses now.

[CradleKY 132]

I say just separate top 4. super easy. Beyond that I don't think people care much if #7 has to meet #8 in the 2nd round or the path to finals for the 8th ranked wrestler is a tad easier than the 6th ranked wrestler. That's where the argument of "settle it on the mat" comes into play.  But having two top ranked guys meet before Semis is just not entertaining for fans and doesn't properly reward the few top ranked guys that accomplished the most to get there. And its easy to fix.

 

 

[119Rider 61]

But who says they are the top 4. Like several others have said, lots of teams travel and have few commons with each other. You could always go back to wrestling for a true second.

[Zeus 117]

Only seed the region champs, which would exclude some of the top 8 guys, but would be better than what we have now.

[ukpridewrestler11 276]

13 minutes ago, 119Rider said:

But who says they are the top 4. Like several others have said, lots of teams travel and have few commons with each other. You could always go back to wrestling for a true second.

I think there should be an opportunity for a true second. 

[Rtrburn76 13]

Track head to head, notable wins, margin of victories. Have the 8 region team champs Coaches seed the top 8