HammerHead

Are USA Wrestling cards (insurance) really necessary?

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5 minutes ago, HammerHead said:

Are USA wrestling cards (insurance) really necessary for the school teams who are covered under their schools insurance?  

Usa wrestling cards are not needed as insurance for the schools who already have insurance. They are however needed to participate in any KFWC sanctioned events as we fall under USA wrestling.

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I believe to say( we fall under USA wrestling) is not entirely accurate. USA wrestling is for insurance purposes. School teams already have insurance through the school. Club teams however do not as they are not affiliated with a school system, so yes clubs need insurance. In my opinion it’s a redundant cost on an already strained budget across the entire state. Would you purchase two insurance policy’s on your home? 

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Thinking that your program falls under the school liability insurance program is incorrect. KHSAA has liability insurance for HS sports only, and only when in regular season. USAW covers the lack of coverage "during and after" the season to give the most insurance possible all year long.

2017-2018 USAW Insuranceinfo.pdf

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1 hour ago, Louden Swain said:

I believe to say( we fall under USA wrestling) is not entirely accurate. USA wrestling is for insurance purposes. School teams already have insurance through the school. Club teams however do not as they are not affiliated with a school system, so yes clubs need insurance. In my opinion it’s a redundant cost on an already strained budget across the entire state. Would you purchase two insurance policy’s on your home? 

Louden,

 

     We are now Kentucky Folkstyle Wrestling Committee under the umbrella of USA Wrestling. We are a committee they are the governing body.

http://www.kentuckyusawrestling.org/page/show/1031369-middle-school-elementary-

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Ksmith you are correct in the assumption that KHSAA only covers HS sports.  However middle school teams fall under that umbrella because Middle school teams are actually JV teams under the High school team. All that the coaches have done is limit the grade of those competing against each other.  It is no different than having a freshman team in basketball or even the all A classic in basketball. 

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     Middle school is in a catch 22.  To be able to allow the private high schools to have a middle school team USA cards were used to give them insurance.  Now the public schools are pushing back because the cost is getting high.  This is mostly in the poor and inner city schools. What I don't understand is why club teams cannot become middle school teams under the school they attend.  Yes I know that means many of these individual clubs will become 2-3 separate teams. I know that other sports private and public middle schools compete against each other, how are they doing it without KHSAA insurance, or are they also under the umbrella?  

     What should not be happening is clubs that have absolutely no affiliation with a school.  This is like allowing AAU basketball teams to compete against the high school teams or Select baseball teams to compete for a state championship.  

Just my take on the whole thing. But I am just an opinionated, fat, old fart. 

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41 minutes ago, kdsmith27 said:

Thinking that your program falls under the school liability insurance program is incorrect. KHSAA has liability insurance for HS sports only, and only when in regular season. USAW covers the lack of coverage "during and after" the season to give the most insurance possible all year long.

2017-2018 USAW Insuranceinfo.pdf

I guess the biggest question most would have, is how all the other sports are able to compete without some other insurance similar to USA wrestling??  Are schools just throwing caution to the wind, and letting football and basketball teams compete with some form of liability coverage??  Is wrestling the only sport doing it right??  I can't imagine today, with all the fears of liability, that middle schools would be allowing teams to compete without proper insurance coverage.  So while I keep hearing the argument that "you're not covered" from USA Wrestling, I've yet to see or hear anything from the schools that our teams aren't covered, and everything I do hear is that we are.  

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13 minutes ago, rjs4470 said:

 

2 hours ago, Louden Swain said:

 

Everyone on here knows how bashful I am so be easy on me. The questions and counterpoints are all valid,I know we have been told directly for our athletic department we are covered under the school policy. There are pros and cons to affiliation with USA Wrestling. We as coaches need to voice these at meetings. We can discuss all these issues till we lose feeling in our hands but if that's all we do we are doing our sport and our kids a great disservice. If you are a coach make it a point to attend the meetings, if you are a parent push your coaches to attend the meetings. We are supposed to be the elders and leaders lets show our youth that we actually care about them and their future.I am one of the !st to moan and complain if i disagree with something, but if I didn't make a particular then I keep my trap shut. (WHICH IS NOT EASY) I disagree with the new rule about qualification for stae at middle school eliminating a kid from youth, but i was not at the meeting to voice my opinion so i deal and just say it is what it is. Lets stop moaning and groaning, we can discuss as adults then attend the coaches meetings and make a difference.

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     What public boards like this does is allow everyone, not just coaches to voice an opinion.  Or maybe a way of seeing things that others do not.  It allows those that are in the position to make the laws/rules to see all sides of the argument.  In many cases it gives the general public the how and why rules and regulations are passed.  There are many things that Joe Public may not know.  

     Plus it gives me someone else to argue with instead of my wife. :ph34r::D

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3 minutes ago, grappler-of-old said:

     What public boards like this does is allow everyone, not just coaches to voice an opinion.  Or maybe a way of seeing things that others do not.  It allows those that are in the position to make the laws/rules to see all sides of the argument.  In many cases it gives the general public the how and why rules and regulations are passed.  There are many things that Joe Public may not know.  

     Plus it gives me someone else to argue with instead of my wife. :ph34r::D

GOO,

    I agree that's why i stated if you are a parent push your coaches. B)

 

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     Middle school is having growing pains. The system has worked "as is" to get middle school wrestling to where it is.  However that system may not work anymore to expand bigger.  One (I hate to use the word problem, but my vocabulary is limited) problem middle school has is in coaching.  Many parents are the coaches of the middle school teams, they stick around until their kid moves up to high school.  You can't blame them, but it is a burden.  We need more coaches that are there for the long haul 10+ years.  Those that are on the board this is even more important.  

     With that said I would like to commend all the coaches/dads that have gotten middle/Youth this far.  It would not have been done without you.  And still can't advance without you.  But we need more head coaches that are willing to stick around for the 10+ years to build programs and make the tough unpopular decisions for what is best for middle/youth wrestling. 

OK I am tired and need a nap. 

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3 hours ago, grappler-of-old said:

Ksmith you are correct in the assumption that KHSAA only covers HS sports.  However middle school teams fall under that umbrella because Middle school teams are actually JV teams under the High school team. All that the coaches have done is limit the grade of those competing against each other.  It is no different than having a freshman team in basketball or even the all A classic in basketball. 

You are correct, but only in Jefferson county because they have absorbed the cost of liability Insurance . All other counties do not think this way. That is why we do not have a wrestling team at every MS. We have to petition the school board to have a school team or club.. Even with a paid position, we still must have separate liability insurance for our team/club and school. I really wish the KHSAA Commissioner would come out with a policy statement to back up what i am saying. I am quoting him from a board meeting in the past when they were deciding on either or not to absorb all MS organizations in KY under KHSAA. MS and Youth are not covered under KHSAA catastrophic liability insurance. Mr Tackett has met with the KY AD and given them this information. That is why mostly all MS wrestling program Schools and clubs require a charter and liability insurance from USAW. KY USAW is the major reason we have an independent organization in our state and able to establish our own bylaws..

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On growth of the sport at the MS level, it seems pretty obvious that the next step is to eliminate club teams from MS competition and kids competing at this level must represent the school at which they attend (or an elementary feeder to that MS such as in the case of 4th or 5th graders wrestling up).  This would cause more MS's to offer programs thereby creating more opportunities for kids from within their own school.  While I understand the issues and hurdles that this would present as far as finding coaches and practice facilities, etc.., , I think this much is somewhat undeniable and our schools (both public and private) need to do a better job of providing these opportunities for our kids.  Please don't assume this is an attack on private schools either as they would have just as much to gain.....if all private MS/Grade schools where to offer wrestling programs, this would only strengthen participation numbers within the parochial school system as well.  If a kid attends a MS which did not offer a wrestling program, couldn't he/she just compete in the youth league under a club team? 

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Are USA Wrestling cards (insurance) really necessary?

No they are not. I have a school team. They are considered JV and fall under the High School program. If a wrestler gets hurt no matter the tournament, when I show up at the hospital they want to see the physical form not the USA wrestling card. It's a money grab plain and simple. At the very least only one coach should need this card. Requiring all High School coaches to have a card or they can't be on the floor is dumb. If I have a fully qualified coach, who is listed on the KHSAA site that should be all that is needed. No need for the background check, sport safety course or submitting anything to anyone else. You cannot work for the school system if you do not have everything so, why the need for everything to be submitted to the Middle School association again? I understand club teams having this requirement, but not school teams. jmho

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6 hours ago, rjs4470 said:

I guess the biggest question most would have, is how all the other sports are able to compete without some other insurance similar to USA wrestling??  Are schools just throwing caution to the wind, and letting football and basketball teams compete with some form of liability coverage??  Is wrestling the only sport doing it right??  I can't imagine today, with all the fears of liability, that middle schools would be allowing teams to compete without proper insurance coverage.  So while I keep hearing the argument that "you're not covered" from USA Wrestling, I've yet to see or hear anything from the schools that our teams aren't covered, and everything I do hear is that we are.  

The KHSAA Coverage is only a buy in, into a bigger catastrophic coverage plan, that if you read the fine print, doesn't necessarily cover any athletes at any level.)  (KHSAA fees, buys the High School in.)  Each school district has to have its own separate an unique liability/general insurance policy.  Some districts are buy in policies, (just like car insurance and home insurance) others are self funded insurance plans.  (Pike Co has a self funded plan for example.)  In either case the district itself has to get said insurance plan that covers them.  

 

Now Keith Smith is right as well, SOME school districts do not have catastrophic insurance that covers their athletic teams in any form.  Some do have it, as a buy in additional to the standard coverage a school has to have to cover all students in the classroom, however as of 2014 (which was the last time I was heavily involved in all the insurance stuff) about 85% did not have it.  Keith is also right that to my knowledge (going back to 2014) Jefferson Co, was the only Major district to have its own Catastrophic Insurance plan that covered all their enrolled students in the district.  

 

Those that are saying they do have it, as they label the kids as a "JV", that may be correct in their cases, however I think that only covers 7th grade and up students, so any younger kids may not be covered under that (unless there is a rider/buy in for that.)  Again, that will be a district by district thing.  

 

 

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Plantman you are right the middle school kids are covered.    If the middle school has 6th grade in it then they are covered also. That is why some schools have 6th grade basketball teams. 

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This is all coming to a head and a decision will have to made by those that are in the upper level (KHSAA) Hopefully sooner rather than later. 

Nky teams have a second option for their youth.  They can join the Cincinnati Youth League and be covered under them, when they participate in CYL events. 

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2 hours ago, grappler-of-old said:

This is all coming to a head and a decision will have to made by those that are in the upper level (KHSAA) Hopefully sooner rather than later. 

Nky teams have a second option for their youth.  They can join the Cincinnati Youth League and be covered under them, when they participate in CYL events. 

 

Curious as to why you think the KHSAA will get involved, and why you think they should?

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They can join the Cincinnati Youth League and be covered under them, when they participate in CYL events. 

Edited by grappler-of-old

 

1. Just wondering if the Cincinnati Youth League covers travel to and from practice and events?

2.Covers your place of practice and all coaches, volunteers, and athletes from liability?

3.covers your facility from all liability during practice, scrimmages, and events?

 

 USA Wrestling General Liability Coverage


What does General Liability provide coverage for?
• Bodily and personal injury (3rd party)
• Property damage (3rd party)
Participant legal liability


What are the commercial general liability policy limits?
$5,000,000 per occurrence
• $100,000 limit on damage to premises rented to you

Who is covered?


Wrestlers holding USA Wrestling Athlete Membership
• Coaches holding USA Wrestling Coaches Membership
• Officials holding USA Wrestling Officials Membership
• Additional Insured entities that are specifically named
• State Associations
• Directors of sanctioned events
• Volunteers at sanctioned events
• USA Wrestling Chartered Clubs

 

Secondary Sports Accident Insurance:


• Coverage is secondary to primary medical insurance
Limits
For All Full and High Performance Athlete members of USA Wrestling, in addition to all members of the
Senior National Team:
• $100,000 maximum Accident Medical Expense benefit limit with following sub-limits:
––Accidental Dental – $100,000
––Physical Therapy – $100,000
––Orthopedic Appliance – $100,000
For all Coach, Official, Limited Folkstyle, and Open License members of USA Wrestling (other than
members of the National Team). This also includes those athletes covered as part of USA Wrestling’s
camp insurance program.

• $50,000 maximum Accident Medical Expense benefit limit with following sub-limits:
––Accidental Dental – $50,000
––Physical Therapy – $50,000
––Orthopedic Appliance – $50,000

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I just came he from Pennsylvania almost a year and a half ago.. Oct, 2016... been involved with wrestling and football as a coach for around 10 years,  was a wrestling ref for 5 yrs. Wrestling is a little bigger in Pennsylvania, just about every school wrestles and most schools have a youth club and there are independent clubs all over. I've been involved with all situations,  wrestled all over, all year round and I can tell you I've never needed to waste money on a USA wrestling card until I came to this state. I really think its rediculous and an unnecessary money grab and may even hurt the sport here. First of all, I went online went through some BS, paid some money... and then last season was told for a tournament I needed a gold members card or silver or something stupid . .an upgrade anyways to be on the floor at a certain tournament. Ultimately I chose not to go to that tournament. I spend enough time and money on wrestling, I have insurance on my kids and I don't need a second insurance provider. This year I thought I did everything , thought I paid, but turns out I paid for my kids and not myself and mine had expired and I still needed to do something else online and again... I give up. If I need a usa card someone else can coach my kid, I've got way too much going on with my large family to throw money and time at something that makes no sense to me.

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You don't need coverage to and from practice and events.  Parents take them to and fro, just like going to the grocery store. 

I have no idea about the rest but they have been doing it for many many years, and they are a huge league.  My guess they are covered much the same way GOO Jr. was covered when playing knothole baseball and intramural basketball. 

And by law are not all people in the USA required to have medical insurance? :ph34r:

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You don't need coverage to and from practice and events.  Parents take them to and fro, just like going to the grocery store. 

They are covered even with their parents. tell Mark Hitchens he didn't need it when he got into an accident on the way home from a tournament a few years ago and ended up in the hospital along with family members. Its a secondary insurance but it helps to pay your medical bills. 

And by law are not all people in the USA required to have medical insurance?

No, they do not. your primary Insurance if you have it only pays 80% (if that) You pay the rest. So a secondary is good to have. 

 

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It’s good to have but not a necessity, I believe that’s the discussion. It’s not a primary insurance. Unless parents don’t have insurance on their kids. In that case the school/club becomes liable and even the USA Wrestling Insurance is only going to protect the school and the coach. Am I not right on that interpretation. The kid even with purchasing the USA Wrestling card would not be protected because it’s a secondary insurance?

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