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grappler-of-old

Middle school Weight allowance.

Middle school 2 pound weight allowance.   

48 members have voted

  1. 1. Should you have to make scratch weight (original weight class) twice before receiving the 2 pound weight allowance?



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And overall I honestly don't think there is much or any weight cutting going on at the middle school or youth level in KY most halfway decent coaches realize its horrible for the kid and burns them out most coaches in middle school or youth if there is any weight loss going on it because they are overall just encouraging these k8ds to be healthier not saying that is always the case but I do believe it is most of the time. 

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On December 14, 2017 at 0:43 AM, tja said:

You could guess every champion at every weight... ? lol I like this guys ridiculous banter its fun overall seems positive.. lol alright give me those high school and middle school State Champ picks...

I will contact the representatives of KY wrestling myself. This forum is useless.

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1 minute ago, Notorious said:

Sounds like you have a HAMMER I understand what you mean. I just would like some answers to the rule. Since we couldn't be adults about it and just take a poll. I think I'd rather have ALL the information. So the wrestling community can understand how it was passed and by who.

Long way away from being a hammer. And lol its banter don't take it personal you do slightly sound like a kid or parent who is worried about someone dropping. Overrall like I said don't think the allowance is that big of a deal one way or the other. Focusing on just wrestling period regardless the weight class or weight allowance is probably a much better productive way of thinking

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On December 14, 2017 at 1:03 AM, tja said:

Long way away from being a hammer. And lol its banter don't take it personal you do slightly sound like a kid or parent who is worried about someone dropping. Overrall like I said don't think the allowance is that big of a deal one way or the other. Focusing on just wrestling period regardless the weight class or weight allowance is probably a much better productive way of thinking

I'm not wrestling. I can focus on the rules. But thanks for the advice.

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2 minutes ago, Notorious said:

I will contact the representatives of KY wrestling myself. This forum is useless.

It's literally a public forum no decisions are made here. That's what those representatives will tell you they will also tell you collectively coaches have made a decision on the 2 pound allowance.

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On December 14, 2017 at 1:06 AM, tja said:

It's literally a public forum no decisions are made here. That's what those representatives will tell you they will also tell you collectively coaches have made a decision on the 2 pound allowance.

That's what I would like to know. How many coaches decided for ALL of KY.

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70 Vega

75 Spalding

80 Rowdy Benner

86 Moore

92 Eckman

98 Chapman

105 Thorton 

113 Bean

121 Reece

130 Blue

140 Caleb

152 Duke

168 Braydon

190 Paxton

240 Walhe

That is your KY champions. 

I would like to see Moore win 92 . He could win 92 and possibly 98.

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6 hours ago, Notorious said:

This is turning into an argument? That's not what this question was about! B

I believe you turned it into an arguement by arguing against anything anyone would say in favor of the 2lb allowance and supporting everything anyone said that was against the 2lb allowance.  

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6 hours ago, Notorious said:

That's what I would like to know. How many coaches decided for ALL of KY.

If you really want know, yes coaches decided.  I’ve been involved in Middle School wrestling and going to meetings for the last 6 years.  And this issue got voted on at least 3 different times over those 6 years.  I honestly can’t remember how’s my coaches voted, but I do know many coaches don’t bother showing up to vote.  This issue has been beaten like a dead horse over the last close to a decade.  The two pound allowance won’t stop weight cutting.  And without a weight management system, any rule about minimum weight classes a wrestler is allowed to wrestle in, or number of times a wrestler must make weight for the post season, is completely toothless, and could be penciled whipped into uselessness as it often is now at the high school level.  Quite honestly I’m not all that concerned about the kid that weighs 107 and wrestles 113 all year but drops to 105 after the allowance he wants to eat like a normal human.  

It sounds like your issue is with the process and the people in charge.  I can tell you the board busts their tail to make things better for this sport.  And mostly, they get very little help while doing it because it’s only a handful of coaches across the state that participate in the meetings.  They would gladly take the help from anyone willing to chip in.

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As I stated the other day. Doing away with the 2lb allowance will not protect kids from themselves or over zealous coaches,in fact that just adds to the amount of cut weight. I know I can feel confident is saying the majority of coaches in Kentucky allow moderate cutting but not drastic cutting. Unfortunately you will have those who allow and even push it. When I wrestled in the 80's it was standard practice to cut 5 lbs overnight just to make weight, that our little friend is why the two point allowance is a good thing. Many a wrestler in the 80's would starve themselves for the day or 2 prior to a big meet then work off 5 plus pounds in a morning before the weigh in. Now Notorious which would you prefer?  

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I’d argue that forcing kids to make scratch twice would encourage more weight cutting than less. I know of many kids that naturally weighed about 2 LBs above a weight class and just wrestled up all season until the allowance went into affect. If they were forced to make scratch, believe me most would have; hence, weight cutting.

I think having something similar to HS’s weight management program is the only answer if the goal is to reduce weight cutting. Obviously, there are cost and administrative issues that comes w/ that idea.

On a side note, I think adding a flat 2 LB allowance to MS weight classes is part of the problem. 2 LB’s is a lot for a 70 LB weight class...not so much for HS weight classes. If done correctly, weight allowances should be a flat % increase. Not sure who was the brainiac who started that trend.

 

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58 minutes ago, MLee said:

 

On a side note, I think adding a flat 2 LB allowance to MS weight classes is part of the problem. 2 LB’s is a lot for a 70 LB weight class...not so much for HS weight classes. If done correctly, weight allowances should be a flat % increase. Not sure who was the brainiac who started that trend.

 

This is a great thought.  Seems logical that % of weight gain for lighter kids would be greater. However I'm not sure.  The number of calories needed for weight gain is the same regardless of body mass.  Do lighter kids grow slower than heavier kids? I have no idea.  

OK now my head hurts.  Kind of like thinking about time travel.  

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I guess I am at a loss for why no 2 pound allowance would force kids to cut to “scratch” weight in youth and middle school.  Just wrestle the next weight up. I cannot say enough about how Coach Carr Sr. and Jr. have helped my son grow as a wrestler and a person since moving here.  I love watching wrestling in Kentucky, but let’s be honest, if you need to cut weight to be competitive in middle school or youth you should be spending your time working on technique rather than than skipping meals and jumping rope to make weight. It will catch up to you in high school and if you wrestle outside the state. Now is the time for these kids to build a foundation, wins will come.

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I'm just a newbie, I wrestled back in the 80's. Fast forward to today, I have a son that is wrestling now. Yes there is still cutting, yes you will have a few that are extreme, yes it happens, its wrestling, but over all its better than it used to be.

Forcing a scratch weigh in is promoting early season cutting. Plain and simple. 

I can tell you that off season training is available, we wrestled all summer, and Ranger123 helped and coached my son and all the others. My son is not a hammer, only a 2 season kid, and it was nice to see Ranger123 coach/teach/train/encourage him no differently than any other kid. This was 3/4 days a week, not close to his house, not close to our house, not just his team, etc... his dedication and time spent towards making KY kids better is unquestionable.

We found this to be the case with every coach we had at this club. I've heard great thing about several other off season clubs in KY as well. Instead of focusing on weight and the 2 pounds, I would recommend focusing on technique, getting extra time on the mat, and the 2 pounds wont make a difference. 

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This is a problem we shouldn't expect coaches like the Carr's and Ranger to solve.  Unfortunately they can only do so much. 

As long as there is an urge to avoid a better kid, increase your chances to medal in a specific tournament, or a need to fill a lineup spot, there will always be weight cutting.  It's inevitable.  Some kids might be faced w/ those urges early in their career, some might have to deal w/it in college, but there will be a time when almost all wrestlers will consider cutting weight.

That is why it is so important to get the rules and regulations right. To protect the kids from an over-zealous parent, ultra competitive coach, and even themselves.  A 2 LB weight allowance or "make them make scratch twice" doesn't help at all.  The notion that it does is almost laughable.  

Again, create a weight management program for MS kids.  If the board makes it mandatory to participate down state, it will get done and paid for somehow.  

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9 hours ago, DocG said:

I guess I am at a loss for why no 2 pound allowance would force kids to cut to “scratch” weight in youth and middle school.  Just wrestle the next weight up. I cannot say enough about how Coach Carr Sr. and Jr. have helped my son grow as a wrestler and a person since moving here.  I love watching wrestling in Kentucky, but let’s be honest, if you need to cut weight to be competitive in middle school or youth you should be spending your time working on technique rather than than skipping meals and jumping rope to make weight. It will catch up to you in high school and if you wrestle outside the state. Now is the time for these kids to build a foundation, wins will come.

I never understood the 2 lb allowance anyway. Just have set weight classes. If you grow, you simply move up a weight class.

Michael Barren is the man to contact about KY wrestling.

looking at the rankings. There are a couple of weight classes that are flat outloaded and will be fun to watch.

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1 hour ago, Bond James Bond said:

Michael Barren is the man to contact about KY wrestling

Yes he is the Commissioner for wrestling, but not a wrestler or someone with a wrestling background. 

The allowance for High school was set by the NFHS, more specifically the board that runs wrestling through NFHS.

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1 hour ago, grappler-of-old said:

Yes he is the Commissioner for wrestling, but not a wrestler or someone with a wrestling background. 

The allowance for High school was set by the NFHS, more specifically the board that runs wrestling through NFHS.

Exactly. Not the right person to get background information from. 

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8 hours ago, MLee said:

This is a problem we shouldn't expect coaches like the Carr's and Ranger to solve.  Unfortunately they can only do so much. 

As long as there is an urge to avoid a better kid, increase your chances to medal in a specific tournament, or a need to fill a lineup spot, there will always be weight cutting.  It's inevitable.  Some kids might be faced w/ those urges early in their career, some might have to deal w/it in college, but there will be a time when almost all wrestlers will consider cutting weight.

That is why it is so important to get the rules and regulations right. To protect the kids from an over-zealous parent, ultra competitive coach, and even themselves.  A 2 LB weight allowance or "make them make scratch twice" doesn't help at all.  The notion that it does is almost laughable.  

Again, create a weight management program for MS kids.  If the board makes it mandatory to participate down state, it will get done and paid for somehow.  

Very good idea MLee. Roth and I pushed it back when we were on the board. Actually used our MS teams as test cases. The NWCA allowed us to run a pilot and we used a similar process as OH where you perform the minimum weight test (hydration and body fat) but do not plug in each weigh in. Unfortunately not many others were on our side to make it happen for the entire state. 

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32 minutes ago, Bond James Bond said:

I will be sure to tell him that.

Ok. Your attempt to impress me is quite unsuccessful. One of the problems with KY wrestling is people with no understanding of the sport trying to "fix" it. 

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