2 LB Weight allowance encourages weight cutting?

[Notorious 15]

The STATE of Kentucky allows a 2Lb weight allowance for "Growth" In MIDDLE school? You should have to make the original weight TWICE before the 2Lb weight allowance is in effect! Or you should not be able to wrestle that weight! You have MIDDLE school kids, who never wrestled in the original weight class ALL season! Then they use the 2LB weight allowance to drop and cut weight! Should KY really be encouraging kids to use the 2LB allowance for "Growth" if they haven't wrestled that weight All year? I'm ok if they at least wrestled at the original weight class at least twice! It's almost like we are encouraging MIDDLE school Kids to CUT weight? Now in HIGH school, that's a different story! I understand wrestlers are trying to get scholarships! It's also a different age group. Just Saying.

[Just a Coach 78]

I as a parent and coach understand your concerns, however this a a situation where it is up to coaches and parents to look out for the health of our youth. We personally do not allow major weight cuts period. Now if we have a wrestler who has been on the cusp of a lower weight class as he /she has steadily dropped in weight thru attrition then that is a different story.This rule is not meant to encourage unhealthy behavior but to accept Natural Growth and Attrition .

[Bluesdad 73]

Of course the 2lb weight allowance encourages middle school kids to cut. The intentions of the rule isn't to encourage cutting but that's exactly what the rule does. A lot of the weight classes will be drastically different after the new year with most kids that switch weight classes cutting down a class.  

[grappler-of-old 44]

BlueD.  Once again if we middle school used the wt. decent plan along with the minimum wt. determination.  This would not be an issue.  Kids would lose wt. at a safe rate and still be at a healthy weight class.  The minimum percentage of body fat was not determined by random coaches but by people in the medical field. Ky uses the most rigorous decent plan method.  Each weigh in must be registered and will re-calculate the decent plan. (unlike Ohio who don't enter each weigh in and only use the 7% rule).  

I would even be in favor of a second evaluation after the 2lb allowance for middle school kids.  

This is a far cry from when I wrestled (many many many years ago).  I am certain that I was below 7% body fat as were many others that I wrestled with.  This was unhealthy and lucky for me I had no ill affects. OK maybe some small brain damage 

[Bluesdad 73]

43 minutes ago, grappler-of-old said:

BlueD.  Once again if we middle school used the wt. decent plan along with the minimum wt. determination.  This would not be an issue.  Kids would lose wt. at a safe rate and still be at a healthy weight class.  The minimum percentage of body fat was not determined by random coaches but by people in the medical field. Ky uses the most rigorous decent plan method.  Each weigh in must be registered and will re-calculate the decent plan. (unlike Ohio who don't enter each weigh in and only use the 7% rule).  

I would even be in favor of a second evaluation after the 2lb allowance for middle school kids.  

This is a far cry from when I wrestled (many many many years ago).  I am certain that I was below 7% body fat as were many others that I wrestled with.  This was unhealthy and lucky for me I had no ill affects. OK maybe some small brain damage 

I agree with everything you said. Good post. 

[Notorious 15]

On December 12, 2017 at 0:06 PM, Bluesdad said:

Of course the 2lb weight allowance encourages middle school kids to cut. The intentions of the rule isn't to encourage cutting but that's exactly what the rule does. A lot of the weight classes will be drastically different after the new year with most kids that switch weight classes cutting down a class.  

Standing Ovation. Finally someone said what everyone is scared to say. Should have to wrestle original weight twice. If we are not using the body fat or 7 percent rule.

[Notorious 15]

On December 12, 2017 at 11:46 AM, Bulldoglife said:

I as a parent and coach understand your concerns, however this a a situation where it is up to coaches and parents to look out for the health of our youth. We personally do not allow major weight cuts period. Now if we have a wrestler who has been on the cusp of a lower weight class as he /she has steadily dropped in weight thru attrition then that is a different story.This rule is not meant to encourage unhealthy behavior but to accept Natural Growth and Attrition .

On the cusp? Gradually cutting? That's using the rule to drop down? That's cutting weight? I understand what you are saying Coach! Not try to make you the BAD GUY! It's what EVERYBODY does. There's a few who can actually use the 2lb growth allowance to stay in the original weight class. But many use it , to gradually cut weight. So it does encourage weight cutting. I guess it's just wrestling. Accept it or don't participate. Just seems like the 2Lb should have a stricter policy to avoid cutting. Just my two cents.

Bringing Wrestling Shoes? Or Track Shoes?

[Ciecon 4]

Honestly I’m not sure how I feel about it. My son has always been on the smaller size when it comes to weight but having the 2 pounds has never affected us negatively. We try to always eat healthy so that when he wrestles his body is ready, it’s gotten what it needs to be healthy. As far as people cutting... it’s what happens. It sucks and there are times I feel it goes too far but all I can do is teach my son the right way to keep his body where it needs to be. This is our last year of middle school and I am just now really seeing what an impact cutting can do. As for next year... I am worried about high school and the pressures that come with that level to maintain weight. 

[Just a Coach 78]

1 hour ago, Notorious said:

On the cusp? Gradually cutting? That's using the rule to drop down? That's cutting weight? I understand what you are saying Coach! Not try to make you the BAD GUY! It's what EVERYBODY does. There's a few who can actually use the 2lb growth allowance to stay in the original weight class. But many use it , to gradually cut weight. So it does encourage weight cutting. I guess it's just wrestling. Accept it or don't participate. Just seems like the 2Lb should have a stricter policy to avoid cutting. Just my two cents.

Bringing Wrestling Shoes? Or Track Shoes?

Notorious ,

        To expound , we have a wrestler who wrestles the 113# class however the most he has ever weighed is 110# , he is generally about 107# so when the 2# allowance will put him where he just barely misses due to lack of body fat to lose. Now we could encourage him to do what we did in the 80s and cut 5+ lbs overnight  so he could wrestle 105, however we do not as over the years we have come to learn how dangerous this is. Now unfortunately there WILL be those who do cut drastically to meet the allowance ,that is where it is up to the parents and coaches to prevent.Either that or we adopt a skin fold program like the high schools.

 

 

[Alf 43]

I have a kid who is going to need the two lbs. He wrestled 92 in February and wrestles 113 now. Kid is growing at rate of like two lbs a month. Started the season at 110 and now weighs 113 on the dot. He will be lucky to stay under 115 by February. He is tall and lean and doesn't have much to lose. For kids like him the two pounds is crucial. Otherwise he will wind up in the bottom end of the next weight class.

[Bluesdad 73]

1 hour ago, Alf said:

I have a kid who is going to need the two lbs. He wrestled 92 in February and wrestles 113 now. Kid is growing at rate of like two lbs a month. Started the season at 110 and now weighs 113 on the dot. He will be lucky to stay under 115 by February. He is tall and lean and doesn't have much to lose. For kids like him the two pounds is crucial. Otherwise he will wind up in the bottom end of the next weight class.

Last December Blue was 105lbs soaking wet. At the start of October he was walking around at 127lbs now he walks around at 132lbs. So I know your pain.

[REscalera 189]

10 hours ago, Notorious said:

it's just wrestling. Accept it or don't participate. 

I couldn't agree with this statement more.  It is what it is.  I have never been in favor of cutting especially at the youth and middle school level.  Cutting puts a focus on winning and I've always felt that to be shortsighted.  Our kiddos should learn to love the sport first.  It's hard enough for an 8, 10 or 12 year old to learn to wrestle.  Throw cutting on top of that and we end up losing them sooner or later.  But it is a part of the sport and the kiddos that do it shouldn't be raked across the coals for doing so.  We also shouldn't make excuses for our kiddos when they lose to a child that is obviously cutting.  It's wrestling. 

[Just a Coach 78]

11 hours ago, REscalera said:

I couldn't agree with this statement more.  It is what it is.  I have never been in favor of cutting especially at the youth and middle school level.  Cutting puts a focus on winning and I've always felt that to be shortsighted.  Our kiddos should learn to love the sport first.  It's hard enough for an 8, 10 or 12 year old to learn to wrestle.  Throw cutting on top of that and we end up losing them sooner or later.  But it is a part of the sport and the kiddos that do it shouldn't be raked across the coals for doing so.  We also shouldn't make excuses for our kiddos when they lose to a child that is obviously cutting.  It's wrestling. 

This statement hit the nail on the HEAD.

[Coach T 5]

19 hours ago, Bluesdad said:

Last December Blue was 105lbs soaking wet. At the start of October he was walking around at 127lbs now he walks around at 132lbs. So I know your pain.

Same here, Nate was a 97 lbs last year at states, and now is a lean 119 and wrestles 121.  The two pounds can be helpful for those trying to cut, but I am not a fan of it.  I have had my son "bulking up" so to speak this season.  Our goal is 10% BF, and to be 1 pound over a few days before each tourney.  Trying to healthy, hydrated, and STRONG.  He keeps eyeballing 113, with the 2lb allowance he could probably do it, but I won't let him.  It doesn't help him, and it doesn't help the team. But, the culture is to cut.  The chaos will begin right after the new year!

[Notorious 15]

Should you have to make original weight class twice? To be allowed to use the 2Lb "Growth" allowance? Yes or No?  No Iffy or maybe senerios. Have to make the original weight TWICE? Or you are not eligible for the 2LB "Growth" allowance? That's my real question. Thanks for taking the time to answer and give feed back.

[grappler-of-old 44]

I set up a poll for you Notorious. 

[Coach T 5]

18 minutes ago, Notorious said:

Should you have to make original weight class twice? To be allowed to use the 2Lb "Growth" allowance? Yes or No?  No Iffy or maybe senerios. Have to make the original weight TWICE? Or you are not eligible for the 2LB "Growth" allowance? That's my real question. Thanks for taking the time to answer and give feed back.

I always assumed that was the original intent of the weight allowance.  The "growth allowance" was for those that had already been wrestling those weight classes. I like it, have to wrestle two MS tournaments at a weight to be eligible for the allowance.

[Notorious 15]

On December 13, 2017 at 3:45 PM, Coach T said:

I always assumed that was the original intent of the weight allowance.  The "growth allowance" was for those that had already been wrestling those weight classes. I like it, have to wrestle two MS tournaments at a weight to be eligible for the allowance.

YES! Either wrestle two Tournaments or make the ORGINAL weight twice! Even a dual would count. Just have to make ORGINAL weight TWICE! To even be eligible for the allowance! Nothing we can do about it. A rule is a rule. People will always look for a edge. Maybe in the future KY gets this right.

[Notorious 15]

There is now a POLL up about the 2LB weight allowance! Made by grappler of old.

GO VOTE! It's in the youth forum!

[REscalera 189]

51 minutes ago, Notorious said:

Should you have to make original weight class twice? To be allowed to use the 2Lb "Growth" allowance? Yes or No?  No Iffy or maybe senerios. Have to make the original weight TWICE? Or you are not eligible for the 2LB "Growth" allowance? That's my real question. Thanks for taking the time to answer and give feed back.

I say absolutely not. It's not that big of an issue unless you make it one.

[Notorious 15]

I humbly disagree. But grappler of old made a poll to vote on. Was a good idea. Just hope we get more than 8 votes we have now.

[CoachC 115]

That seems logical...make them cut 2 extra pounds twice before they get the allowance. Really doesn't support the argument that you are trying to make.

[REscalera 189]

2 hours ago, CoachC said:

That seems logical...make them cut 2 extra pounds twice before they get the allowance. Really doesn't support the argument that you are trying to make.

Are you being sarcastic? Because I don't see the logic.  I agree wholeheartedly though and wish I could have said it in so few words like you did.  Those that are cutting after the allowance would also make the cut twice if they had too.  

[Ranger123 43]

47 minutes ago, REscalera said:

Are you being sarcastic? Because I don't see the logic.  I agree wholeheartedly though and wish I could have said it in so few words like you did.  Those that are cutting after the allowance would also make the cut twice if they had too.  

Or as I heard from the old days, their coach would produce a couple weigh in sheets that said he made it twice. 

[CoachC 115]

9 hours ago, REscalera said:

Are you being sarcastic? Because I don't see the logic.  I agree wholeheartedly though and wish I could have said it in so few words like you did.  Those that are cutting after the allowance would also make the cut twice if they had too.  

 

9 hours ago, Ranger123 said:

Or as I heard from the old days, their coach would produce a couple weigh in sheets that said he made it twice. 

To REscalera, sarcasm.

Ranger, again spot on.