Fargo - rant #3 - the ugly

[Ranger123 43]

Participation. Our participation in freestyle/Greco just sucks. I'm going to address our poor participation from 2 angles. 

 

First coaches. Right now we have way too many coaches who shut down after February. I get it that no one coaches for the money and as their primary job. And many coaches have other obligations and have to make major sacrifices to coach during the season. BUT if that is the case, there is nothing stopping you from seeking out and communicating other opportunities for your kids to take advantage of during the off season. Clubs have started to pop up across the state to provide training for your wrestlers year round. Yes, some of these options are expensive and require travel, but no one said getting better would be easy. Also, if you look hard enough I'm sure there are cost effective options in your area. The only problem is, if it's anything like northern Ky, parents and kids like to talk a lot but do very little even when the training options are free. 

 

I'm not sure why coaches don't push kids to do more. I assume we all have a goal of beating the Union County's and St Xavier's of our state. Guess what?  Those kids aren't sitting at home playing video games and drinking beer all summer. My assumption with our lack of HS coach support of fs/gr is that many of them are unfamiliar with it (or assume they are) and don't want to put any time into learning. That doesn't mean our kids shouldn't get exposed to it and use the opportunity to learn new skills and develop their wrestling ability. Don't hold kids back because of you lack of knowledge.

 

Second kids/parents. I've heard it every year I've coached and from all levels. "Coach tell me what we can do to get better for next season. Where should I go?  When is this camp or that event?"  But 95% of the time those kids and parents are nowhere to be found when the time comes to put in the work. Yes there are often reasons, conflicting schedules, lack of parental support, money, etc but does that really explain why we can never get more than a dozen kids to Fargo?  I find that hard to believe.  Back to my first paragraph I don't believe kids are encouraged to participate in fs/get by their HS coaches. I also think a lot of kids are afraid of failure. They feel like they don't know the styles and won't have success. Zeke proved that wrong. Ask anyone that watched him in May at the freestyle state tournament. He had no clue what he was doing. Fast forward 2 months and he is a national champ. 

Also one thing I learned this summer. The exposure outweighs the potential losses. About the only place you will see more college coaches than Fargo is at the NCAA tournament. The place is packed with them. And many of them aren't scouting the national champs; those guys are pretty well already covered. But they are looking for the tough kids who have sacrificed much of their summer and travel to the middle of nowhere to compete against the best in the country. Again it's not all about the wins and losses. Of course you need to win some matches, but getting the exposure is huge. True story. The entire Cornell coaching staff sat matside in Akron and watched Ryan get his butt kicked twice in a row to finish 8th at UWW Cadet world team trials. Walking off the mat a little disappointed, we hesitantly walked over to chat with Coach Koll. His words to us "Ryan will be ok, he will be a stud in college. I love the way he wrestles and we want him on our team. I know freestyle isn't his strength so I don't care about those losses".  Kids need to get that exposure and show these coaches what you are made of. Winning a Ky state title is great, but gains you virtually nothing on the recruiting trail. I know D1 wrestling is not on every kid's list of goals, but I know many want to compete at the collegiate level. And the vast majority of kids nationally with that goal are competing in fs/gr in the off season. I'm fairly confident they aren't doing it to get worse at wrestling, but realize the benefits of these styles in improving their skills for the next level. Also go check out the participation at the UWW University Nationals in Akron back in June. It was like a mini NCAA tournament with tons of the best college kids competing in fs/gr with their coaches there supporting the effort. 

 

We also need to take advantage of the resources we have in the state. As we are seeing a great upswing in KY kids participating on the next level (especially D1), we should be beating down their doors to get them running camps and clinics when they are in town. When kids like Sean Fausz, Nathan Boston, Austin Myers, Brock Ervin, etc are in town we should be keeping them busy teaching kids how to reach their goals in the sport. 

[REscalera 189]

That's hilarious Ranger.  When he got home from state and told us how it went he said he felt like a fish out of water wrestling Freestyle.  He didn't have a choice though.  Coach Carr has been trying to get him to do freestyle way back when he would have been a novice at central regionals.  But again with freestyle not being a focus here on a local level Zeke never went.  But back in December, Zeke's VAC team had an open spot and we asked if Payne would fill it.   Jon being the wise man he is saw an opportunity and jumped on it.  Knowing that we needed the spot filled so we could make the gold Brackett he made a deal with Zeke.  If he let Payne wrestle on the team then Zeke had to do freestyle this summer.  Zeke agreed and the rest is history.  Had it not been for Jon Carr's persistence Zeke may have never wrestled freestyle.

[kdsmith27 14]

well said Ranger123,  cant say that i haven't heard this before!! lol

[Ranger123 43]

GREAT example!!!  Coach continues to encourage and push and good things happen. Even an amazing wrestler like Zeke struggled at first, but he put in the requisite time and effort and he learned freestyle and I would venture to say added to his folkstyle arsenal. 

[CoachC 115]

Well said coach!! I love your energy!! 

And yes REscalera, I have been working on Zeke for a long long time!! No one thought Zeke's first national championship would come in Fargo, but here we are.

Encouragement goes a long way. Sometimes you just have to keep trying!

[jasonrusselltmc 13]

Ranger,

I think you make a number of solid points. When I attended the Freestyle/Greco state tournament in April, I was very surprised by the low turnout. In both Ohio and Wisconsin the freestyle state tournament was a big deal. I think that cost may be a huge factor for some kids, but I believe in Ohio a lot of kids are able to get sponsors that help pay for their trip. I was new to the state this year, but I look forward to trying to get involved with the Kentucky National team next year and help with coaching or providing a place to train in any way that I can.

[Ranger123 43]

Cost may be a factor for Fargo, but shouldn't be for the state tournament. And just for comparison purposes, I believe attendance has been much improved the last 2 years at Campbell County as sad as that is to say. As for the Fargo cost, Ky has a very affordable package to get kids there. Minimal fundraising could cover most of a kids expenses. Not to mention that in the past Ky USA offered some years with costs near zero (Keith Smith can confirm) and kids still didn't come out. 

[CoachC 115]

There was a year when the cost was $0. We had more wrestlers this year than we had that year. And annually, the cost to wrestle in Fargo is cheaper for our wrestlers than almost any other state.

[REscalera 189]

4 minutes ago, CoachC said:

There was a year when the cost was $0. We had more wrestlers this year than we had that year. And annually, the cost to wrestle in Fargo is cheaper for our wrestlers than almost any other state.

Heck yeah it is!!!  Indiana wrestlers paid $1,200.00.]

[Ranger123 43]

I would venture to say Ky kids pay less than half of almost every state out there. 

 

I'm starting to think we may need to increase cost and really go all out on the kids that are committed. 

[CoachC 115]

1 hour ago, Ranger123 said:

I would venture to say Ky kids pay less than half of almost every state out there. 

 

I'm starting to think we may need to increase cost and really go all out on the kids that are committed. 

We really haven't got a choice. We are more than capable of competing at a very high level. 

[ccbcdeke 43]

If money is the issue at local tournaments, I know several wrestlers in OH that referee the local tournaments and are able to compete for free for doing so.  One in particular happens to be the UWW Cadet Greco National Champion and world team member this year at 106.  If we grow the number like we want to, we are going to need more than just 5 officials in the state, especially since 2 are college students and can't help as much as they would like.

[Alf 43]

Exposure in education at the youth level would be the best way to promote freestyle and Greco. Why not have more freestyle and Greco tournament during the season for the youth kids? that way you have their full attention and anttendance  because it is during season and you're not competing with other sports. My son wrestled Greco and freestyle for the first time at the state tournament at Campbell County this year. In the previous years we always had baseball it just so happened that this particular weekend was open on our baseball schedule . He absolutely loved Greco and wound up taking second. I think that it got him hooked on it  and he would love to wrestle more of that style  but he is a very committed baseball player. So his issue is not that he's not committed to wrestling or that we are not committed to taking him to practices but it is a timing issue with other sports.  I would imagine this is an issue for a lot of other kids and also for parents who may have other children who also play spring or summer sports.  I guess my point is after this giant ramble is why not teach this more during the season to the youth kids so they are exposed to it and understand the styles and would be more apt to show up at the tournaments in the spring.

[Ranger123 43]

Virtually impossible to do anything during the season. There are only a handful of coaches who claim to know anything about freestyle, even less Greco. In the middle of folkstyle season you won't get anyone teaching other styles. Just like during baseball season you won't see any coaches pulling kids to the side to show them how to pitch in slow pitch softball. 

[Alf 43]

Sounds like maybe there needs to be more coaches clinics to teach the basics of the styles to the coaches who don't know anything about them. I would fall into the category of are youth coach who knows virtually nothing about Greco very little about freestyle. I only learned folk style when I wrestled so I can only teach that style but would certainly be willing to learn more about the other styles. And baseball and softball are two different sports. But you do you see coaches teach kids how to throw curveballs screwballs fastballs and every other kind pitch  so they have a large arsenal to throw their opponent. From what I read on these forums Greco and freestyle certainly help kids and their folkstyle. If more coaches knew more about it maybe they could show some of these types of styles one day a week of their youth practices just a thought.

[REscalera 189]

I would consider folkstyle, freestyle and greco different sports in the same manner I would consider judo a different sport.  They are all a MMA type of sport but different disciplines.  So the analogy of baseball and softball makes perfect sense to me.  Teach folkstyle during folkstyle and freestyle during freestyle practice.  

[Ranger123 43]

A major issue with trying to teach multiple styles to youth kids during the same season is the conflicting rules. Perfect example. Freestyle day you work on gutwrenches. 8 year old kid gets good at it. Every time he forgets and tries a gutwrench on the weekend he will be giving up points for locking hands. 

 

Not saying it can't happen, but not sure it will be effective as there will be many techniques that won't apply in competition or worse may become penalties. 

[CoachC 115]

Freestyle & Greco Roman are already battling folkstyle during Freestyle & Greco Roman season. Not sure its in our best intrest to try to battle them during folkstyle season.

[CoachC 115]

Fact is, unless you have an incredibly athletic individual, chances are they are going to struggle their first season no matter how much they are getting training, & no matter the style. If every wrestler or coach that struggled their first few outings quit because they were struggling or weren't familiar, we would have a folkstyle situation that would resemble our Freestyle & Greco situation. 

[Ranger123 43]

Very true.  Our kids have to get over the fear of the unknown and the fear of losing. Take it as an opportunity to learn. Plain and simple. Check the latest Flo rankings. How many of the top 20 ranked kids are competing in FS/GR?  I would guess somewhere around 75%. Are they doing it because they are bored in the summer?  Are they doing it because they are being forced to?  Or could it be that they see a benefit to training these styles in preparation for the next level?

[CCMS_SC 59]

Very happy to see the state moving in the right direction.  FS/GR will only make you a better folkstyle wrestler, period.  Said it years ago and will continue to say it.  If you're not doing the other styles you will never reach your full potential.  I'm pretty sure I might have made money the year it was $0 cost.  I think that was the year Keith and KY USAW reimbursed me for mileage.  Thanks to everyone that is pushing this forward because it is truly in the kids best interest!  Well done!

Andy Fausz

[REscalera 189]

13 hours ago, Ranger123 said:

Check the latest Flo rankings. How many of the top 20 ranked kids are competing in FS/GR?

To your point, this could be why we had 2 KY kids fall out of the rankings.  It appears as if they were replaced by kids that had good showings at Fargo. 

[Ranger123 43]

43 minutes ago, REscalera said:

To your point, this could be why we had 2 KY kids fall out of the rankings.  It appears as if they were replaced by kids that had good showings at Fargo. 

Yep. Attending only select big events won't hold your spot. Our regular season just doesn't provide enough top competition to build resumes and stay in the rankings. 

[Ranger123 43]

Nationally it will always be what have you done for me lately

[GentleBeard 145]

I'm not sure how many coaches wrestled freestyle/greco when they were growing up. That may be a reason not many are coming out for freestyle/greco season. Maybe the coaches are embarrassed to learn alongside wrestlers if they're not familiar with it. Who knows. But, I think the quality of coaching in the state is growing. It needs to be reflected more during FS/GR season.