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Ranger123

2017 Ranger Report

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Has Anthony (182 for Hoptown) wrestled Buckman (Union County)? Niko Bussell wrestled Buckman in the finals after beating Anthony in the regional semifinals. I checked trackwrestling, and I don't see Buckman and Anthony wrestling this season. I could be mistaken (overlooked it)... I know sometimes everything doesn't get entered in track as it should. :)

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Good stuff. I liked the comments about the state of KY wrestling. I am definitely one of those in the camp of population makes it harder for us to compete with OH and PA. I do personally believe our top teams can compete at a lot of Indiana tournaments and do fairly well, year after year. Same goes for WV, TN, etc. Some states are just so thick with stiff competition, like OH, I think that's where the line is drawn. I do really believe that the top ~6-8 states are ahead of the game but after that it's really up in the air and teams like Union Co. can compete nearly anywhere outside of a large OH/PA tournament and do great. 

I think if we in Louisville could figure out what the heck is going on that the state will improve immensely. There's so many schools without programs, lack of feeder programs compared to population densities in areas, etc. Is there even a single feeder program/private club in the Dixie/Shively/Iroquois area? It's crazy to think and it's hard to find the cause. Is it just lack of coaches sticking around at these schools? Lack of interest from AD? Funding? Would more 'private' clubs help Louisville? 

It is truly depressing to not see Johnson vs. Sheffer in the finals. The match of the tournament will be wrestled on the first day, sort of a huge let down. Would have been nice for at least to be in the semis so it could've been second day action. I'm a huge advocate for seeding out the state tournament from top to bottom in every weight. I do not think big weight cutters getting easier matches should be a point to advocate this though.. Just saying. You should be given the 'easier' matches by nature of seeding and bracketing, but we shouldn't really advocate for 'big weight cuts'.. Just a personal opinion. 

None is knocking off Union. Truly a powerful team this year.

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As the initiator of the whole topic/controversy, I also loved that Ranger included his analysis of the current state of KY wrestling.  He is certainly the most respected statistician in the state and provides a humorous yet objective approach.  Perhaps he could elaborate more next year like I attempted to do, although the report is already quite detailed so it might be too much to ask.  Feel free to use the stats I collected however you wish Ranger, I'm hoping moderators have access to deleted content...

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14 minutes ago, Zeus said:

As the initiator of the whole topic/controversy, I also loved that Ranger included his analysis of the current state of KY wrestling.  He is certainly the most respected statistician in the state and provides a humorous yet objective approach.  Perhaps he could elaborate more next year like I attempted to do, although the report is already quite detailed so it might be too much to ask.  Feel free to use the stats I collected however you wish Ranger, I'm hoping moderators have access to deleted content...

I'm not sure rehashing on the previous conversation would be beneficial. You all were looking at historical stats. Ranger's analysis is looking at current guys and those wrestling at the national level right now with success. I think this is the best approach to take because it's really hard to skew these statistics one way or the other. It's rather factual and shows where we are, which I think we can all agree on, is that we have stellar talent at the top, some good guys in the middle, but no where near the depth of a top state. Our best can compete virtually anywhere but I'd venture to say some 'lower tier' teams in OH/PA would handily beat some of the top 20 teams in KY. It's just pure numbers in my opinion though, the difference between us and 'top' states. 

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34 minutes ago, justaref said:

I'm not sure rehashing on the previous conversation would be beneficial. You all were looking at historical stats. Ranger's analysis is looking at current guys and those wrestling at the national level right now with success. I think this is the best approach to take because it's really hard to skew these statistics one way or the other. It's rather factual and shows where we are, which I think we can all agree on, is that we have stellar talent at the top, some good guys in the middle, but no where near the depth of a top state. Our best can compete virtually anywhere but I'd venture to say some 'lower tier' teams in OH/PA would handily beat some of the top 20 teams in KY. It's just pure numbers in my opinion though, the difference between us and 'top' states. 

I didn't clarify but I was referring to current instead of historical, which would include, what... maybe a 2-5 year trend, or maybe just the previous year.  He'd obviously be able to organize the info in the best manner he sees fit.

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3 minutes ago, Zeus said:

I didn't clarify but I was referring to current instead of historical, which would include, what... maybe a 2-5 year trend, or maybe just the previous year.  He'd obviously be able to organize the info in the best manner he sees fit.

Ah okay. Definitely think that's the discussion that needs to be had if it is had at all. Keeping tabs on all success at the higher levels (collegiate+) is also applicable to see how we stack up, but that DEFINITELY needs to include D2/3 schools and not only the ones that make it to D1 schools. Not everyone wants to move to Michigan or Iowa to grind it out like that. There's tons of guys that don't compete D1 that are still great wrestlers. 

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justaref - good point on the weight cutting. We noted that the writeup was taken from TheMat.com so it is not from our perspective, but I agree making like easier on weight cutters should not be a consideration. 

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Just now, Ranger123 said:

just area - good point on the weight cutting. We noted that the writeup was taken from TheMat.com so it is not from our perspective, but I agree making like easier on weight cutters should not be a consideration. 

Right. Not a jab at anyone in particular, not even TheMat. It's a part of the game and should be considered but definitely not in that light, haha. Sorry if I came off the wrong way, love all that you do. 

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Just now, justaref said:

Ah okay. Definitely think that's the discussion that needs to be had if it is had at all. Keeping tabs on all success at the higher levels (collegiate+) is also applicable to see how we stack up, but that DEFINITELY needs to include D2/3 schools and not only the ones that make it to D1 schools. 

Right, I just wanted to provide a baseline to be give something to compare our current level and measure our progress.  I originally chose NCAA D1 AA's because the stats were already done for me.  Current rankings, recent HS AAs and D2/3/NAIA AAs takes a lot of work to sort out.

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2 minutes ago, Zeus said:

Right, I just wanted to provide a baseline to be give something to compare our current level and measure our progress.  I originally chose NCAA D1 AA's because the stats were already done for me.  Current rankings, recent HS AAs and D2/3/NAIA AAs takes a lot of work to sort out.

It's very hard to judge the caliber of the state if we are talking about only including the highest of high accolades to compare ourselves to states that have much more access to recruiting within the state at the D1 level and view to the people that 'make the lists'. I think the teams that should be competing outside of KY are doing a good job of doing so, but it's still harder for a KY kid to get a scholarship to a D1 college for wrestling than many others. 

For instance, if you live in OH you by nature have access to some of the biggest, baddest tournaments in the country simply because you live in closer proximity, same with PA, etc. Even though they are not far, it's hard for a lot of KY wrestlers to make it to these 'big' national tournaments to get eyeballs on them. 

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1 hour ago, justaref said:

Right. Not a jab at anyone in particular, not even TheMat. It's a part of the game and should be considered but definitely not in that light, haha. Sorry if I came off the wrong way, love all that you do. 

Didn't take it that way at all

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1 hour ago, justaref said:

It's very hard to judge the caliber of the state if we are talking about only including the highest of high accolades to compare ourselves to states that have much more access to recruiting within the state at the D1 level and view to the people that 'make the lists'. I think the teams that should be competing outside of KY are doing a good job of doing so, but it's still harder for a KY kid to get a scholarship to a D1 college for wrestling than many others. 

For instance, if you live in OH you by nature have access to some of the biggest, baddest tournaments in the country simply because you live in closer proximity, same with PA, etc. Even though they are not far, it's hard for a lot of KY wrestlers to make it to these 'big' national tournaments to get eyeballs on them. 

Agree completely, there are various reasons why we lag behind other states.  Lower population, the cultural focus on basketball in KY, less in-state college programs, less quality coaches, lack of feeder programs, etc. all factor into the equation.  Many of them also affect each other, such as I think the last three I listed are are related.

Another fallacy of me originally only including college results is other states have many more college wrestling programs, for example PA has like 30 total or some insane number like that.  Forget scholarships for a moment, because of in-state tution rates, kids in those states have easier access to opportunities to compete at the next level, increasing the likelihood that PA kids will become AAs.

Does my point about the number of colleges in a state with programs make sense?  I know what I'm trying to say but not sure if I explained it clearly.

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Point I forgot to add...

 

IF Sheffer is able to pull off his 4th title I hope it is recognized. Winning one is hard enough, but it blows my mind that we can't take 1 minute to recognize what some of these kids are accomplishing. We already missed the window for kids like Brock and Austin. Now that it seems the KYWCA is making ground with the KHSAA maybe this is another area we can take a step forward. 

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2 hours ago, Zeus said:

Does my point about the number of colleges in a state with programs make sense?  I know what I'm trying to say but not sure if I explained it clearly.

100% makes perfect sense. Out of state tuition bars A LOT of students from going out of state regardless of the sport or academic standing. I for one looked into attending Ohio State outright instead of UofL for college (purely academic), subtract the whole UPS paying for my tuition thing, if I went to OSU I would be easily $60k in debt unless I got some insane scholarships (none were offered, haha). It's entirely valid to include this as a reason when the only foreseeable colleges that a majority of our wrestlers can attend are in state schools, thus limiting them to D2/D3 schools if they want to wrestle at the next level. If you want to go to UofL/UofK for their academic programs and majors, then you are pretty SOL on being able to wrestle period. 

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59 minutes ago, supernat said:

Unfortunately it appears Landin Jones is out at 285. It's on the sub list. 

Man I just saw that. Hate to hear that for a good kid. I'm sure he will be successful beyond this weekend. Best of luck in your future Landin. 

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16 hours ago, pin2win said:

Has Anthony (182 for Hoptown) wrestled Buckman (Union County)? Niko Bussell wrestled Buckman in the finals after beating Anthony in the regional semifinals. I checked trackwrestling, and I don't see Buckman and Anthony wrestling this season. I could be mistaken (overlooked it)... I know sometimes everything doesn't get entered in track as it should. :)

They have not. Union and Hoptown never crossed paths until regionals. 

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I graduated with a state title, and made you look stupid so many times lol but you continue to jab me. Might want to check your results. TRUST ME I COULDVE AND WOULDVE HELD MINE OWN AT 145 LAST YEAR, AS WOULD ANGEL. NOW GET OFF OF ME AND FOCUS ON KIDS THAT ARE STILL IN HIGHSCHOOL AND SEARCHING FOR A TITLE, SUCH AS YOUR OWN!. LETS GO YENTER, LAMPE AND REST OF CREW! HE WILL BREAK

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23 minutes ago, Josh_Claywell said:

Ranger:

I want to know what Tucker Shelton did to make you angry. :lol:

You left him off the final rankings and then didn't include him at 285 in your report.

Good question. Something happened in the final rankings and that drove the report. I may have made a copy error. Had to be my mistake. 

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