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jnv858

1st Annual Blugrass Youth State Duals

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41 minutes ago, rdc517 said:

Understand.  Realize this was first year for event.  Maybe residency requirement area for improvement for next year.  Kind of defeats purpose of it being for Kentucky wrestlers.  Otherwise could have northern KY teams add a few ringers from Cincy to roster, or western KY teams add kids from Illinois, etc. just for the purpose of winning State Duals title.  Not saying those programs would ever do that.

Yes sir, it was a discussion that was had but in the Youth bylaws residency for competing in KY tournaments is not addressed, only for Youth State, so since he was a paying member of the club it was decided to be allowed this time around. But you make a very good point and that might be something we spell out for next year. Thank you for your input, this is what we are looking for to better this event next year and years after that.

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29 minutes ago, rdc517 said:

This may be for a different post but I think it would be good to have a disclaimer for the youth State events only (Duals and Individual), that if a wrestler has participated in 60% or more of his/her matches at MS level tourneys then he/she is ineligible for youth State events.  Understand the top 6 placer at MS State caveat.  There are points of discussion to be made for or against this viewpoint.   To me just a way to level the mat for kids who aren't yet ready for MS level competition and for those who are MS level/caliber.

Nope, you are spot on....we decided to cut it off at 5th graders BUT I still put a statement in there that they could not be Middle School Starters since many of your lighter, 75-86, 4th and 5th graders are starters for their Middle School. thank you for your input...this is definitely what we are looking for to better this event for the future.

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2 minutes ago, KSWA Staff said:

Question back to you.  Who tracks that?

I would think most teams' coaches would use good judgment on allowing a non-placing MS State participant to wrestle at Youth State.  But ,correct me if I'm wrong, aren't most MS tourneys run through Trackwrestling?  Every wrestler has a profile there.  A cross check of Youth State entrants by the tourney organizer (Tyler or whomever) as rosters from teams are submitted can be done.  Just an idea.

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48 minutes ago, rdc517 said:

This may be for a different post but I think it would be good to have a disclaimer for the youth State events only (Duals and Individual), that if a wrestler has participated in 60% or more of his/her matches at MS level tourneys then he/she is ineligible for youth State events.  Understand the top 6 placer at MS State caveat.  There are points of discussion to be made for or against this viewpoint.   To me just a way to level the mat for kids who aren't yet ready for MS level competition and for those who are MS level/caliber.

 

16 minutes ago, jnv858 said:

Nope, you are spot on....we decided to cut it off at 5th graders BUT I still put a statement in there that they could not be Middle School Starters since many of your lighter, 75-86, 4th and 5th graders are starters for their Middle School. thank you for your input...this is definitely what we are looking for to better this event for the future.

Just my opinion but I think this is a great way to do this. My son is not a middle school starter but has competed in a couple of middle school tournaments this year so that he can get some different competition than the youth level provides him and to get him ready for that next step. Now his season isn't 60% middle school either at this point.  He is currently between levels, needs a little more than some youth tourneys but not at middle school level just yet. I think for State Duals as long as the wrestlers are not middle school starters and are in 5th grade then they deserve to compete for their team. I also agree with the rule of being top 6 in middle school state would disqualify them from entering Youth State tourney. Just my opinion but I think it is wrong to not allow an Elementary school age child to participate in a Youth Dual because they may be a stronger wrestler than most elementary kids but yet not strong enough for Middle School yet.  

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44 minutes ago, rdc517 said:

Not questioning the residency requirements.  I'll put my point another way.  The top 6 placers at MS State cannot participate at Youth State (per flyer).  No argument there.  However, for the other MS State participants who do not place in top 6, those hammers should not be allowed to wrestle in the Youth State tourney (regardless of age) UNLESS they have participated in less than 60% of MS matches/events.  Since most MS tourneys are on Track, this could be verified.  To me would keep competitive level at Youth State very close to what is seen at youth tourneys throughout season.

I see, sorry misunderstood. I believe if a wrestler qualifies for middle school, no matter the placement, they shouldn't be allowed to wrestle at the youth level.

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1 hour ago, jnv858 said:

 

Yes sir, it was a discussion that was had but in the Youth bylaws residency for competing in KY tournaments is not addressed, only for Youth State, so since he was a paying member of the club it was decided to be allowed this time around. But you make a very good point and that might be something we spell out for next year. Thank you for your input, this is what we are looking for to better this event next year and years after that.

If a wrestler is on the roster of a club and regularly attends their practices then I don't see any reason to not allow that wrestler to compete..

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20 minutes ago, carrir said:

 

Just my opinion but I think this is a great way to do this. My son is not a middle school starter but has competed in a couple of middle school tournaments this year so that he can get some different competition than the youth level provides him and to get him ready for that next step. Now his season isn't 60% middle school either at this point.  He is currently between levels, needs a little more than some youth tourneys but not at middle school level just yet. I think for State Duals as long as the wrestlers are not middle school starters and are in 5th grade then they deserve to compete for their team. I also agree with the rule of being top 6 in middle school state would disqualify them from entering Youth State tourney. Just my opinion but I think it is wrong to not allow an Elementary school age child to participate in a Youth Dual because they may be a stronger wrestler than most elementary kids but yet not strong enough for Middle School yet.  

I agree and that's why I put that statement in there about 5th graders that are Middle School starters. Now, another decision I had struggled with is we have a 5th grader that didn't wrestle Middle School all year but practices with the Middle School and Youth and we entered him in MS Districts for the experience and he placed 2nd qualifying for Region, he goes to Region and places 3rd qualifying for MS State. What do you do in this instance, now obviously if he places top 6 on Saturday he wont compete Sunday but do you let a 5th grader like that compete at the Youth State Dual?

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17 minutes ago, jnv858 said:

I agree and that's why I put that statement in there about 5th graders that are Middle School starters. Now, another decision I had struggled with is we have a 5th grader that didn't wrestle Middle School all year but practices with the Middle School and Youth and we entered him in MS Districts for the experience and he placed 2nd qualifying for Region, he goes to Region and places 3rd qualifying for MS State. What do you do in this instance, now obviously if he places top 6 on Saturday he wont compete Sunday but do you let a 5th grader like that compete at the Youth State Dual?

My opinion would be yes, as long as he isn't your middle school starter. Why should he be punished for being good in the 5th grade? 

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8 minutes ago, carrir said:

My opinion would be yes, as long as he isn't your middle school starter. Why should he be punished for being good in the 5th grade? 

Yeah, we let him compete, that was kind of the consensus we came to is he wasn't our MS starter and 90% of his tournaments were at the youth level. Curious to see how he does at State since everybody in his weight class (92) are 7th & 8th graders, ought to be interesting, will be good experience.

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I know that I am an outsider on this issue but I do have an opinion on allowing elementary age wrestlers who wrestle/qualify for MS state not to participate in the youth state tournaments.

First, I believe that elementary is the foundation for the future of MS and HS.  It seems to me that making the competition at the youth level as strong as possible would continue to make MS stronger, then HS stronger.  I understand the lure of having solid youth kids that can fill weight classes in MS.  I know that the theory is that it will allow for different kids to be the top at the Elem level too.  However, your Elementary kids will not get better by wrestling the 2nd, 3rd, or 4th best kids; they will only get better by wrestling the best.  I also understand those wanting the kids that are the top 5-10% to get better competition by wrestling MS kids.  My answer to that is have your Elem youth practice with MS kids at your club.  I do that with my third grader.  But he is in the room with our elementary kids and it pushes those kids.  If you want to get stiffer competition go to tougher tournaments or national events.  Go to some camps where the studs hang out.  There is already a system in place so I digress.

Concerning the Elementary Team State tournament:

I would seek to make this a premier event for your state for all elementary kids.  Let all elementary kids that are within the age requirement wrestle.  Make this a tough tournament where the kids who want a tough tournament in order to get them ready for individual state compete at.  A tournament like this adds many different variables that are not present in individual tournaments.  One team may have a Kindergartner that weighs 40 lbs. while another team has a 2nd grader at 40 lbs.  The 2nd grader may not when state at his individual weight but do well in this team tournament because he is older.  Or he may not get many matches at individual state but he gets 5 matches at Team state.  Also, the elementary wrestlers that do not wrestle for MS will get to see where they need to be when they wrestle their peers who are good enough to wrestle MS.  If you raise the level of competition of your Elementary Team State Tournament you will also raise its prestige.

I have followed the youth participation of wrestling in Kentucky and have seen that it is growing so you all are on the right track.  Keep up the good work!

PS: I am a big advocate of wrestling Freestyle and Greco in the "off season".  But that is another topic for another thread. LOL

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9 minutes ago, jnv858 said:

Yeah, we let him compete, that was kind of the consensus we came to is he wasn't our MS starter and 90% of his tournaments were at the youth level. Curious to see how he does at State since everybody in his weight class (92) are 7th & 8th graders, ought to be interesting, will be good experience.

I totally agree with the thought process there as a parent.  Good Luck to him and that is definitely a brutal bracket but the experience will be amazing for him and his future in wrestling! 

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2 hours ago, rdc517 said:

I would think most teams' coaches would use good judgment on allowing a non-placing MS State participant to wrestle at Youth State.  But ,correct me if I'm wrong, aren't most MS tourneys run through Trackwrestling?  Every wrestler has a profile there.  A cross check of Youth State entrants by the tourney organizer (Tyler or whomever) as rosters from teams are submitted can be done.  Just an idea.

No most MS tournaments are not on track.  District, Regions, State is, and a handful of others, but of the tournaments that happen, less than 50% are on track.  

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I really do not understand why so many people think it is a good idea to limit the opportunity for youth wrestlers to compete in these events.  In fact, I think we should do the exact opposite.  We should be begging and doing everything we can to get our best youth kids to participate in our state events, regardless of their schedule or placements in MS state. I hear many people on this site claim that by eliminating MS state placers from participating in Youth State is for the "development of the youth kids".  How does making a tournament easier help those kids?  If anything, it hurts their development.  Wrestlers at any level only get better going up against better competition.  There is so much a wrestler can learn just from watching a stud warm up, compete, and conduct themselves in live competition.  We've basically already eliminated our best and most experienced youth kids from our state tournament by eliminating those that place at MS state.  Now we don't want our best youth kids to wrestle a MS schedule?  I cannot fathom how that would help our state improve.  There should be no rules eliminating kids the opportunity to wrestle if they want to wrestle at any level just because they are too good.  That is really just a silly and ridiculous idea if you really think about it.    

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I'm with you raidercoach, we keep taking competition away from our youth organization for what we're calling growth. Not sure how this ads up.

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