grappler-of-old 44 Report post Posted January 17, 2017 If you mean the host team lost money on the event that is easy to rectify. After the receipts are counted then divide the loss by the teams entered and that is their entry fee. If your school is concerned about losing money then skip your turn to host it. If you skip the district tourney then those teams would probably enter another tourney that would cost them an entry fee anyway. Alignment needs to be by geography and a little about participation. Don't make teams travel 2 hours out of their way to enter a district that needs it. The high school old districts and now regions have number problems also but its by geography and a little bit participation. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nike Man 292 Report post Posted January 17, 2017 4 minutes ago, KSWA Staff said: Lets remember why KSWA went to the district format in the first place. 1. 32 man brackets or bigger under the old regional format (each team got 2 wrestlers per weight class), as # of teams continued to grow, it became hard to have it as a one day event. 2. Gyms spaces not big enough to hold a 1 day - 32 man bracket tournament. (name the places that it could be hosted in your region, then work the event around HS Basketball schedule and HS Wrestling Schedule) 3. Due to the 2 wrestlers per weight class format, it was noted that several wrestlers were dropping inappropriate amount of weight to make lower weight classes so they could wrestle due to the kids on their specific roster. 4. Why should kids that practice all year with a team, not be given the chance to participate in the post season. To address #4- .....never mind. Here's your trophy. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KSWA Staff 7 Report post Posted January 17, 2017 2 minutes ago, grappler-of-old said: If you mean the host team lost money on the event that is easy to rectify. After the receipts are counted then divide the loss by the teams entered and that is their entry fee. If your school is concerned about losing money then skip your turn to host it. If you skip the district tourney then those teams would probably enter another tourney that would cost them an entry fee anyway. Alignment needs to be by geography and a little about participation. Don't make teams travel 2 hours out of their way to enter a district that needs it. The high school old districts and now regions have number problems also but its by geography and a little bit participation. The distance thing I dont get. If every school should get a chance to host districts, then on some years are you not going to travel further than others? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KSWA Staff 7 Report post Posted January 17, 2017 5 minutes ago, Nike Man said: To address #4- .....never mind. Here's your trophy. I think I am missing your point or understanding it incorrectly. How does allowing a kid to participate in an OPEN District Tournament giving them a participation trophy? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
grappler-of-old 44 Report post Posted January 17, 2017 it comes down to the school not wanting kids to leave before 6 in the morning. What I mean by travel is look at the average travel time for a team to travel to other schools in their district. Schools also have to pay bus drivers for the entire time they are gone not just while they are driving, plus fuel costs. It may not seem much to some schools but it does to many schools. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
grappler-of-old 44 Report post Posted January 17, 2017 4 minutes ago, KSWA Staff said: I think I am missing your point or understanding it incorrectly. How does allowing a kid to participate in an OPEN District Tournament giving them a participation trophy? I think this was said as sarcasm. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nike Man 292 Report post Posted January 17, 2017 It is about earning the opportunity. Have you ever had a high school freshman that wrestled throughout middle school come up to you and not understand why his teammate is wrestling in the regional tournament and he isn't? He is used to the mentality of everyone gets a chance. Every since youth wrestling, this is what we teach. When does the coddling stop? 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KSWA Staff 7 Report post Posted January 17, 2017 1 minute ago, grappler-of-old said: it comes down to the school not wanting kids to leave before 6 in the morning. What I mean by travel is look at the average travel time for a team to travel to other schools in their district. Schools also have to pay bus drivers for the entire time they are gone not just while they are driving, plus fuel costs. It may not seem much to some schools but it does to many schools. That could be a valid point. Our school doesnt provide travel for MS sports of any kind, so I wouldnt know. Lets also remember though that only about 40% of the teams are school teams. You take away the 4 school teams in our area that dont provide travel via bus and you the numbers are less. However like I said, a rotation plan of District host elevates this. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
grappler-of-old 44 Report post Posted January 17, 2017 i think what we forget when talking and making decisions is that every parent/family is as supportive as we on this site are. In the many many years that I have has some involvement in this great sport I know of many who's parents never saw them wrestle one match. Probably more than you think. Not to include those parents/families that could not afford to send their kids to events if not for the school. Some will say that they can find the money if they look, but for most of these type of parents/families it is easier to not allow their child to participate than go out and beg for money. I'm not agreeing with this but it is the truth. I would bet that at least 15% of middle school kids are in this category, probably a lot more. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rjs4470 103 Report post Posted January 17, 2017 6 hours ago, Nike Man said: It is about earning the opportunity. Have you ever had a high school freshman that wrestled throughout middle school come up to you and not understand why his teammate is wrestling in the regional tournament and he isn't? He is used to the mentality of everyone gets a chance. Every since youth wrestling, this is what we teach. When does the coddling stop? No. I've never known of a freshman that didn't understand why he didn't get a chance to wrestle in the regional tourney, or even wrestle in very many tourneys. Kids aren't stupid...they understand how high school wrestling works, especially if the HS and ms team work together closely as most do. 1 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MLee 68 Report post Posted January 17, 2017 I hope we're not expecting a half-day, 100 participant tournament (or less) improve our #'s at the MS level....if so, we're in trouble. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tcats 4 Report post Posted January 17, 2017 8 hours ago, grappler-of-old said: it comes down to the school not wanting kids to leave before 6 in the morning. What I mean by travel is look at the average travel time for a team to travel to other schools in their district. Schools also have to pay bus drivers for the entire time they are gone not just while they are driving, plus fuel costs. It may not seem much to some schools but it does to many schools. This is closer to the point that I was asking about. I was just wandering if 3+ hour travel is an issue in all districts or just district 8. No matter where the tournament is hosted somebody is going to making a 3-4 hour trip, being there for the tournament and then 3-4 hour trip home. I do not think doing a way with districts is good for the development of the sport. I do believe realignment should be looked at but that was not the intent of this thread but it has turned into a good conversation. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kyrj 3 Report post Posted January 18, 2017 On 1/17/2017 at 11:09 PM, KSWA Staff said: That could be a valid point. Our school doesnt provide travel for MS sports of any kind, so I wouldnt know. Lets also remember though that only about 40% of the teams are school teams. You take away the 4 school teams in our area that dont provide travel via bus and you the numbers are less. However like I said, a rotation plan of District host elevates this. Only 40% of the teams at the middle school level are school teams? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KSWA Staff 7 Report post Posted January 18, 2017 42 minutes ago, kyrj said: Only 40% of the teams at the middle school level are school teams? Give or take a few % points, yes. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tcats 4 Report post Posted January 19, 2017 Is there a district alignment map somewhere? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KSWA Staff 7 Report post Posted January 19, 2017 14 hours ago, tcats said: Is there a district alignment map somewhere? Updated list as of today. Please act accordingly. 2016-2017 Bylaw forms turn in by Dec 18, 2016 Region 1 Region 2 Region 3 Region 4 District 1 District 2 District 3 District 4 District 5 District 6 District 7 District 8 Caldwell Co Central Hardin Fairdale North Oldham Raiders Campbell Co Anderson County Ashland Calloway County Danville River City Conner Holmes CWA Johnson County Christrian County John Hardin Shamrocks Cooper Newport EJ Hayes Martin County Eagle WC Larue County NKY Saints Summit View Franklin County Montgomery County Fort Campbell Walton Twenhofel Hammer Time WC Perry Co Central Fulton Independent Woodland Madison County Wayne County KY Stars WC Scott County McCracken County Wolverine WC Trigg County Woodford County Union County 2016-2017 Bylaw forms turn in late, pending late fee receipt Region 1 Region 2 Region 3 Region 4 District 1 District 2 District 3 District 4 District 5 District 6 District 7 District 8 Ohio County Meade County Moore Henry Clay McCreary County 2016-2017 Bylaw forms not turned in Region 1 Region 2 Region 3 Region 4 District 1 District 2 District 3 District 4 District 5 District 6 District 7 District 8 Daviess County Bardstown WC Doss East Oldham Bourbon County Harrison County Hopkinsville Barren County Fern Creek Oldham Tates Creek Paducah Tillman Boyle County Male South Oldham Purchase Pounders Bullitt East University Heights Nelson County Spencer County North Hardin Relentless WC Taylor County Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
grappler-of-old 44 Report post Posted January 19, 2017 22 hours ago, kyrj said: Only 40% of the teams at the middle school level are school teams? This may be true but many of those "club" teams are only club teams so they can add a few kids from outside the main middle school they represent. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KSWA Staff 7 Report post Posted January 19, 2017 30 minutes ago, grappler-of-old said: This may be true but many of those "club" teams are only club teams so they can add a few kids from outside the main middle school they represent. Maybe, majority of them are club teams due to the school district in the area they are in, do not sponsor wrestling, hence being a club team is the only option. (See Boone County) for an example. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
grappler-of-old 44 Report post Posted January 19, 2017 So they really are a middle school team just not backed by the middle school they represent. I have never truly understood the problem. Middle school teams should be covered under the high school team. How is the middle school basketball, and football teams handled? That is another argument, which does not change the discussion about distance of districts. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KSWA Staff 7 Report post Posted January 19, 2017 13 minutes ago, grappler-of-old said: So they really are a middle school team just not backed by the middle school they represent. I have never truly understood the problem. Middle school teams should be covered under the high school team. How is the middle school basketball, and football teams handled? That is another argument, which does not change the discussion about distance of districts. Football and basketball are sports sponsored by the school district, in most cases wrestling is not. There is nothing with the High School or KHSAA that covers anything middle school sports wise. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kyrj 3 Report post Posted January 19, 2017 I could be wrong but I think the majority of the teams in district 8 are school sponsored teams, not sure though. District travel can be an issue at times, but with the rotation of the district tournament I think it evens out a little. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
grappler-of-old 44 Report post Posted January 19, 2017 I have had this argument with coach Smith on this. Years ago when all this started the school I was involved with told me that the middle school is covered under the high school team. The old AD and the new AD today still say this is true today. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kyrj 3 Report post Posted January 19, 2017 2 minutes ago, grappler-of-old said: I have had this argument with coach Smith on this. Years ago when all this started the school I was involved with told me that the middle school is covered under the high school team. The old AD and the new AD today still say this is true today. We are a school sponsored team , my AD assured me we are covered. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ccbcdeke 43 Report post Posted January 20, 2017 On 1/19/2017 at 10:38 AM, grappler-of-old said: So they really are a middle school team just not backed by the middle school they represent. I have never truly understood the problem. Middle school teams should be covered under the high school team. How is the middle school basketball, and football teams handled? That is another argument, which does not change the discussion about distance of districts. in Louisville many of the high schools don't have a single middle school associated with them. There are actually very few that do. For instance, Fern Creek has several middle schools that feed into the high school, like Ramsey, Newburg and others. While others like Moore have a middle school and a high school on the same campus. Some high schools that have wrestling teams, do not have feeder programs either. That is why you have kids that grow up with a club team like Fern Creek never planning on going to the high school, end up going to Male or one of the private schools. Also several club teams have wrestlers from some of the catholic grade schools around town. I guess I'm just saying that the high schools can't always cover the middle school teams. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
