plantmanky1

KSWA 2016 Fall meeting Voting Results

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13 minutes ago, plantmanky1 said:
Please see the attached KSWA 2016 Fall Meeting Voting Results. 
 
By Laws will be updated shortly and sent with acknowledgement for return. 
 
 
KSWA

KSWA Fall 2016 After Vote Ballot.pdf

How much back room talking did it take to keep MS-11 from passing?  Looks like we as a state are not doing what is best for the sport!!! We get a chance to make a positive change and we fall on our sword. Great work.

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That is way disappointing. Was counting on that rule passing. I had lots of middle school kids interested when I showed them that they may be wearing a fight shorts combo instead of a singlet. Kentucky.........

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2 hours ago, Chris Duke said:

How much back room talking did it take to keep MS-11 from passing?  Looks like we as a state are not doing what is best for the sport!!! We get a chance to make a positive change and we fall on our sword. Great work.

Somehow my post seemed to disappear so I'll post it again. Can the coaches that decided to vote against the MS using these uniforms in conjunction with the singlets please share with this forum your thought process. Maybe there is something we are missing to why this isn't a great alternative to girls and young men that are uncomfortable wearing a singlet to have this option available to them. I'm sure with all the positive responses that a thread that I started on this forum received by some of the coaches that do so much with Kentucky wrestling all year, would like to hear the reasoning to why this got voted down. And as Adam stated, their are coaches that voted for the youth to be able to chose between the 2 but not MS. How is that going to work for the girls that wear these sublimated shirts under their singlets now that there's a rule against wearing this shirt? Please tell me how this vote improved our numbers and helped promote our sport?

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16 hours ago, plantmanky1 said:

To be honest i dont remember there being much discussion about it for middle school once we hashed it out for youth with what would be acceptable.  

 

 

Just an FYI, since some of us are trying to grow this sport and not just keep status quo Plantman, Northern Ohio, which is considered some of the best youth and MS wrestling in the United States just PASSED the 2 piece uniform for their MS and youth!! Can someone besides Plantman, tell us why they voted against this? Great Job to the Ohio wrestling coaches for continuing to grow the sport of wrestling in Ohio!!

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Gameface there may have been some miscommunication on my part. I said send those boys up north in Ohio. Where everyone has the option to where the optional two piece uniform. I am glad that Ohio didn't talk to the same idiot so called health professionals that said it increases injuries like plantman did. I am also glad they are taking an opportunity to reach more kids to help have a positive impact on their life's in a sport that will help them with some of the insecurities they may have as well increase Ohio's numbers to help make an elite wrestling state

Screenshot_20160927-131954.png

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This is precisely why I stated it should not get put to a vote.  I typically respect the voting process, but I've seen first hand people vote against or for something just to be a thorn in the side of the ones trying to help grow the sport.  Plantman brought up safety as the sole reason why he was voting against.  Albeit a silly reason, it was the only reason I read from anyone that held any merit.  I guess the safety of our youth isn't as important as our MS kids.  Huh?  

My question is...what would happen if some kids showed up with the new gear?  I see HWT's wear compression shirts all the time under their singlets (just like girls) at the HS level.  Would an opposing coach have to request a uniform change?  How pathetic would that be on their part?  I doubt any of the coach's I know would do that.    

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Our state loves to stay in the Stone Ages.  All you can do is shake your head at some of these decisions.  I'll never for the life of me understand making kids "ineligible" to compete at youth state because they placed in the middle school tournament.  Instead of eliminating that idiotic rule, we decided to expand it to top 6.  I wish we'd move the youth tournament to a date prior to the middle school state so we could do away with that meaningless rule. 

We have systematically removed the best kids from our youth state tournament, incentivized youth teams to "stay small", and have decided to stay uncool at the middle school level by not allowing the current uniforms.  Great job Kentucky!  

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20 hours ago, plantmanky1 said:

To be honest i dont remember there being much discussion about it for middle school once we hashed it out for youth with what would be acceptable.  

 

 

Who is allowed to vote? Do they have to attend the meeting to vote? Who counts the vote? I would like to see who voted and how they voted and I'm sure I'm not the only one that feels this way.

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If I'm not mistaken (and please, someone correct me if I'm wrong), there were a few reasons the article didn't pass

1.  Many coaches seemed uncomfortable with how the proposal was worded.  Since "wrestling style shorts" wasn't clearly defined, some were worried this would open a wormhole of almost any kind of shorts being worn.  And then who would make the call as to what kind of shorts would be appropriate, and would those decisions be applied consistently without a specific definition.  

2.  Cost.  The compression shirt/shorts combo is more expensive than a basic singlet, and providing both would add to already tight budgets.  And since the NFHS hasn't yet allowed short/compression combo, it's too early to make that change at the middle school level.  One quick note..the discussion was had about two piece singlets, and I believe they are still allowed.

3.  A few did have safety concerns.

By and large, I think #1 was the main problem that caused the vote to fail.  

What's really sad, is that of all the middle schools/club wrestling teams, only 27 cared enough to even vote.  That's the biggest hurdle we face in growing the sport.  Getting enough coaches/club directors to care enough to have their voice heard.  I couldn't care less what the kids wear when wrestling.  We need to get more people involved in these meetings.  If more had reviewed the proposals when they were sent out, some of the wording issues and concerns people raised in the meeting wouldn't have been an issue, and some of the outcomes might have been different.  By the time the meeting rolled around, it was too late to make changes that were probably necessary.

 

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44 minutes ago, rjs4470 said:

If I'm not mistaken (and please, someone correct me if I'm wrong), there were a few reasons the article didn't pass

1.  Many coaches seemed uncomfortable with how the proposal was worded.  Since "wrestling style shorts" wasn't clearly defined, some were worried this would open a wormhole of almost any kind of shorts being worn.  And then who would make the call as to what kind of shorts would be appropriate, and would those decisions be applied consistently without a specific definition.  

2.  Cost.  The compression shirt/shorts combo is more expensive than a basic singlet, and providing both would add to already tight budgets.  And since the NFHS hasn't yet allowed short/compression combo, it's too early to make that change at the middle school level.  One quick note..the discussion was had about two piece singlets, and I believe they are still allowed.

3.  A few did have safety concerns.

By and large, I think #1 was the main problem that caused the vote to fail.  

What's really sad, is that of all the middle schools/club wrestling teams, only 27 cared enough to even vote.  That's the biggest hurdle we face in growing the sport.  Getting enough coaches/club directors to care enough to have their voice heard.  I couldn't care less what the kids wear when wrestling.  We need to get more people involved in these meetings.  If more had reviewed the proposals when they were sent out, some of the wording issues and concerns people raised in the meeting wouldn't have been an issue, and some of the outcomes might have been different.  By the time the meeting rolled around, it was too late to make changes that were probably necessary.

 

RJS it is never too late to do the right thing. We had a pretty deep forum debate with what type of compression 2 piece singlet we were looking to add. Tyler the President was even for it when we talked do I'm sure he could clarify to what the uniform was able to be. A bunch of adults sit around and make suggestions in the spring. Then it sits idle through the summer and fall as families do their thing. Then as we come close to season information is put out there for all to see. I think we should start by putting out suggestions on this forum and then all that care to debate can share their thoughts. Then we vote at the MS/ Youth State weekend. Have the ballots already prepared and fill it out and turn it in. It could be when we do weigh ins for no more than a half hour over a few drinks. All the debating would be done throughout the season and off season and almost everyone has a computer or access to the forum. This decision needs to be reversed or we need more details to what's allowed and not allowed. A lot of compression shorts are going to be a problem for the girls and boys to wear this year! And great point by Raider Coach. How was it decided about the type of shorts and shirts the youth are going to wear. It was proposed the same way!!!!

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13 hours ago, gameface said:

RJS it is never too late to do the right thing. We had a pretty deep forum debate with what type of compression 2 piece singlet we were looking to add. Tyler the President was even for it when we talked do I'm sure he could clarify to what the uniform was able to be. A bunch of adults sit around and make suggestions in the spring. Then it sits idle through the summer and fall as families do their thing. Then as we come close to season information is put out there for all to see. I think we should start by putting out suggestions on this forum and then all that care to debate can share their thoughts. Then we vote at the MS/ Youth State weekend. Have the ballots already prepared and fill it out and turn it in. It could be when we do weigh ins for no more than a half hour over a few drinks. All the debating would be done throughout the season and off season and almost everyone has a computer or access to the forum. This decision needs to be reversed or we need more details to what's allowed and not allowed. A lot of compression shorts are going to be a problem for the girls and boys to wear this year! And great point by Raider Coach. How was it decided about the type of shorts and shirts the youth are going to wear. It was proposed the same way!!!!

I hear ya.  The singlet issue wasn't the only issue where some folks had issues with how the bylaw was worded, and there was even a question about an item that had been discussed in the spring and was left off the ballot.  This may be an issue where the board may have to consider a special vote since it was so close and because many had issues with the way the proposal was worded.  I really believe most would have been comfortable with the proposal had the wording been more specific and clearer.  

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41 minutes ago, rjs4470 said:

I hear ya.  The singlet issue wasn't the only issue where some folks had issues with how the bylaw was worded, and there was even a question about an item that had been discussed in the spring and was left off the ballot.  This may be an issue where the board may have to consider a special vote since it was so colors and because many had issues with the way the proposal was worded.  I really believe most would have been comfortable with the proposal had the wording been more specific and clearer.  

So who is the board? 

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11 hours ago, rjs4470 said:

I hear ya.  The singlet issue wasn't the only issue where some folks had issues with how the bylaw was worded, and there was even a question about an item that had been discussed in the spring and was left off the ballot.  This may be an issue where the board may have to consider a special vote since it was so colors and because many had issues with the way the proposal was worded.  I really believe most would have been comfortable with the proposal had the wording been more specific and clearer.  

Thanks for the info rjs... 

Why was cost an issue?  Have we ever policed the cost of headgear, singlets, or warm-ups before?  Seems asinine.  

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1.12.1.2 Spandex/lycra. The shirt shall be a T-shirt style form-fitted, sleeveless or short-sleeved and shall not cover or extend beyond the elbow. In addition, the length of the shirt must be longer than the torso to prevent the shirt from becoming untucked. The shirt shall remain tucked into the shorts at all times during competition. The shorts shall be form-fitting with a minimum 4-inch inseam and shall not extend beyond the top of the knees.

 

Those are the rules from the NCAA.  I guess they aren't as current on wrestling injuries from compression shorts as Plantman's team of astute medical professionals.  

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Is anyone on this forum apart of the "board"? We are going to order these 2 piece compression gear for our wrestlers that want to wear them this season. I want clarification if this compression 2 piece is approved for MS to wear to sanction events. Ohio considers them safe for MS and youth. Our own State considers them safe for our youth that have less technique and more opportunities to "get hurt" by getting their arm stuck up in the shorts as Plantman says can happen. They are the same material as the singlets, so they have the same opportunity of collecting bacteria and toxic, harmful infections( also stated by Plantman and the experts medical staff). If cost is an issue for your specific team, offer for your parents to buy them if they want them. Do a fundraiser or look for donations! All kidding aside, this will help grow our sport and be one of the most beneficial things we can do for the girls and young men that want to wrestle or already do, but have a self conscious feeling about themselves. We can't just vote this away for the MS and pass it for the youth. We're a lot better than that!!!!

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2 hours ago, gameface said:

Just so everyone understand what we're talking about with the material and the look. 

image.jpeg

It's my understanding (and again, someone correct me if I'm wrong), the combo on the left of this image (compression shorts and shirt) is ok for MS under our existing rules.  I want to say that was specifically discussed at the meeting, and all agreed it would be ok.  Hopefully, a member of the board can clarify.

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5 hours ago, rjs4470 said:

It's my understanding (and again, someone correct me if I'm wrong), the combo on the left of this image (compression shorts and shirt) is ok for MS under our existing rules.  I want to say that was specifically discussed at the meeting, and all agreed it would be ok.  Hopefully, a member of the board can clarify.

According to ballot results posted at the top of this thread, only singlets are allowed for middle school competition.  It specifically stated no shirts and shorts.  

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I coach both middle school and youth @ LaRue County. I will give my view on this subject since I sent in my ballot to Adam. After reading opposing views I'm not sure what side I fall on when it comes to middle school uniforms, but I voted to keep the singlet. I voted that way primarily because some middle school kids wrestle high school, even the ones that may not be very good or have body issues, and I don't want to mislead them. Until high school amends their rules(NFHS) I see no reason for middle school to change. IF high school amends the rule, middle school should follow. If you have a wrestler with body issues have them wear the appropriate compression shirt under a singlet, most(not all) officials will allow it if it is necessary. The 2 piece that gameface provided looks awesome. But what is the difference in that and a folkstyle singlet?(Besides the obvious sleeves). My point is the compression uniforms are imperfect. 2 examples, 65# kid that has noodle arms and legs or the 240# kid that is 5'3" good luck trying to find a size that fits compression style and will stay tucked in and tight for a whole day. Their compression gear is going to look like a worn out T shirt and boxer briefs after a game of softball when they are done. If you added the "fight shorts" (above on right) that would be cool, but they fall down, they rip/tear, and good luck untying and tying. I've never had to tie a singlet or had one come off and expose underwear. When it comes to youth however, I voted for basically come as you are as long as it is tight and doesn't go past the knee or the elbow. Primarily looking at the monetary aspect of it. I agree we need to grow the sport at all levels. A t shirt and shorts cost about $15 and they can wear them anywhere. A sublimated singlet costs at least double that and they only wear it on the mat for a season maybe 2. I have found that once a youth kid comes out and sees his friends and teammates are wearing practice gear that he will wear practice gear. And once he sees a friend wrestle in a tight shirt and shorts he will do the same. He gets used to it, it becomes normal. But if you tell them to practice in a t shirt and then wrestle in a singlet they will freak out.

If you want to pressure anyone to make a change, pressure the high school rules makers because as most of you know and have experienced what is done by the middle school association and board means absolutely nothing to the KHSAA.

   

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When I questioned what exactly we were discussing, a small discussion ended up with a singlet of any kind which is supposed to include 2 piece singlets. However they must be compression type. This would not include fight shorts. Compression shorts and a compression shirt.

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