Fargo Recap

[Tyr 32]

xxcg

[crazyotto 381]

Thanks for posting the video. Two evenly matched kids going at it. Outcome could have been easily reversed. These guys wrestle ten times, I would call it 5 each way. I am not a fan of the 30 second "shot clock" and watching this match confirmed this. The wrestler not on the clock can block off for 30 seconds and earn a point. Both boys did just that in this match. 

[Tyr 32]

second point no shot clock .Austin had the straight clean takedown in the match and most of the offense .I did see plenty of kids getting called for charging head First Dixon did not.Decent match I do not think it would go 5_ 5 .

[Tyr 32]

second point no shot clock .Austin had the straight clean takedown in the match and most of the offense .I did see plenty of kids getting called for charging head First Dixon did not.Decent match I do not think it would go 5_ 5 Austin wrestled two tournaments and had to beat two other placers in his quarter neither Dixon or Harrington wrestled greco Austin had all the offense early in the match and the only clean takedown .I would take him 9.5 out of ten and Otto if your life depended on it you would too.

[crazyotto 381]

Yes, his takedown was nice. I thought his defense was good as well, especially the heavy hips with 49 seconds left in 2nd period. First passivity call was warranted, second one was questionable. Third was warranted as well. I think the problem came when Myers shut down his offense with about 1:10 left, not gonna say he backed up......but he quit going forward.  He wrestled two very nice tournaments. Double AA, something to be proud of. The accomplishment loses its luster when sour grapes come out. He lost this match, no official took it from him. Learn from it and move on (as in wrestle the entire period, Myers got dinged for passivity late in both periods, ya gotta wrestle 'til the whistle). 

[Tyr 32]

Explain this one too me.

[Tyr 32]

Myers Miller

[Tyr 32]

Yes, his takedown was nice. I thought his defense was good as well, especially the heavy hips with 49 seconds left in 2nd period. First passivity call was warranted, second one was questionable. Third was warranted as well. I think the problem came when Myers shut down his offense with about 1:10 left, not gonna say he backed up......but he quit going forward. He wrestled two very nice tournaments. Double AA, something to be proud of. The accomplishment loses its luster when sour grapes come out. He lost this match, no official took it from him. Learn from it and move on (as in wrestle the entire period, Myers got dinged for passivity late in both periods, ya gotta wrestle 'til the whistle).

ya gotta stay in bounds and ya cant lead with your head either Otto .But of course your bias as usual.

good advice though it teaches life lessons a little more training a little more cardio a lot more mat time in these styles .And unlike the top placers or those who placed avove him He will Be Back next yr .I expect Nothing less than two Finals matches for him or a third place match at worst .That is the expectatation and the Goal .Another yr to grow wrestle and train .He will be not onky a better wrestler But The most powerful Wrestler in the Country .That is our Goal .Perhaps if I had decided to leave him alone and let him just wrestle free he would have had a bit more gas or perhaps it would have been the same a ref who was call crasy and let people charge head first without cautions and step out might still make a difference but I doubt it .I think he will make Fargo look like he made regionals look this yr all over in the First .

[Tyr 32]

Oh well, I tried to not piss anyone off.  I wasn't so much trying to defend the refs on that match, rather merely offering my point of view.

 

First. I haven't had a chance to find the Greco match. So I can't speak to it.

 

I didn't say that refs were perfect.  What I was trying to say about the refs was that the chairman was about the best and most fair you are going to see. I don't know the mat official or the judge.  If a call is offered by the mat official and the judge confirms it, there is not much the chairman can do other than record the score.  He could have called for a conference, but he didn't so we don't know what he thought of the caution. Maybe he thought with only 8 seconds left that it wouldn't be an issue. If I were the judge, I would have white paddled it giving the chairman the option to do the same. That way the message would still have been made without actually giving the point.  As for the guy stepping out, it looked like the mat official was in a good position to be able to see it if it happened.  He also did not have the benefit of being able to replay it. 

 

I think we agree on the importance of the Central Region. Although, finances may not have been an issue for some or even most of the kids that were on the team, but for some it could have been.  And I'm glad it was an option for those not interested in Fargo.

 

It was a REALLY good match.  Well wrestled by Austin.  Tough break.  He handled the questionable call very well.  I think it shows that he has matured since the state finals his sophomore year.  Congrats on the future Olympian ranking.

So can you and your ref friends explain to me what the proper call was in the Greco match between Austin and Delaney .and would you say that your allowed to charge head down into someones face headbut style .

im.waiting and im certain as is everyone else his foot was out before he shot

Oh well, I tried to not piss anyone off.  I wasn't so much trying to defend the refs on that match, rather merely offering my point of view.

 

First. I haven't had a chance to find the Greco match. So I can't speak to it.

 

I didn't say that refs were perfect.  What I was trying to say about the refs was that the chairman was about the best and most fair you are going to see. I don't know the mat official or the judge.  If a call is offered by the mat official and the judge confirms it, there is not much the chairman can do other than record the score.  He could have called for a conference, but he didn't so we don't know what he thought of the caution. Maybe he thought with only 8 seconds left that it wouldn't be an issue. If I were the judge, I would have white paddled it giving the chairman the option to do the same. That way the message would still have been made without actually giving the point.  As for the guy stepping out, it looked like the mat official was in a good position to be able to see it if it happened.  He also did not have the benefit of being able to replay it. 

 

I think we agree on the importance of the Central Region. Although, finances may not have been an issue for some or even most of the kids that were on the team, but for some it could have been.  And I'm glad it was an option for those not interested in Fargo.

 

It was a REALLY good match.  Well wrestled by Austin.  Tough break.  He handled the questionable call very well.  I think it shows that he has matured since the state finals his sophomore year.  Congrats on the future Olympian ranking.

So can you and your ref friends explain to me what the proper call was in the Greco match between Austin and Delaney .and would you say that your allowed to charge head down into someones face headbut style .

im.waiting and im certain as is everyone else his foot was out before he shot p

[Tyr 32]

Oh well, I tried to not piss anyone off.  I wasn't so much trying to defend the refs on that match, rather merely offering my point of view.

 

First. I haven't had a chance to find the Greco match. So I can't speak to it.

 

I didn't say that refs were perfect.  What I was trying to say about the refs was that the chairman was about the best and most fair you are going to see. I don't know the mat official or the judge.  If a call is offered by the mat official and the judge confirms it, there is not much the chairman can do other than record the score.  He could have called for a conference, but he didn't so we don't know what he thought of the caution. Maybe he thought with only 8 seconds left that it wouldn't be an issue. If I were the judge, I would have white paddled it giving the chairman the option to do the same. That way the message would still have been made without actually giving the point.  As for the guy stepping out, it looked like the mat official was in a good position to be able to see it if it happened.  He also did not have the benefit of being able to replay it. 

 

I think we agree on the importance of the Central Region. Although, finances may not have been an issue for some or even most of the kids that were on the team, but for some it could have been.  And I'm glad it was an option for those not interested in Fargo.

 

It was a REALLY good match.  Well wrestled by Austin.  Tough break.  He handled the questionable call very well.  I think it shows that he has matured since the state finals his sophomore year.  Congrats on the future Olympian ranking.

So can you and your ref friends explain to me what the proper call was in the Greco match between Austin and Delaney .and would you say that your allowed to charge head down into someones face headbut style .

im.waiting and im certain as is everyone else his foot was out before he shot p

[crazyotto 381]

Explain this one too me.

Very nice takedown in the first. You've got a legit beef with the result of this match. Ref verballed for him to be aggressive, but in my opinion neither kid was doing much. My only suggestion would be to keep on the offensive. It seems as though he gets a lead and goes defensive.Not sure if this is due to wrestling new styles? In any case, crap way to lose a match. I do not agree with the outcome. Apologies if my "bias" is showing.

[Tyr 32]

He has only wrestled Two Fr Gr Tourneys in over 3 yrs no way is he comfortable particularly in greco which he really did not want to do but has great potential in Freestyle is more similar to Folk,with calls like these im sure it will.be a task to get him to go for it in Greco .with a comfortable lead I do not blame someone for backing off to avoid throws .this was no 1 or 2 point lead he was ahead by 6 .

[ccbcdeke 43]

So can you and your ref friends explain to me what the proper call was in the Greco match between Austin and Delaney .and would you say that your allowed to charge head down into someones face headbut style .

im.waiting and im certain as is everyone else his foot was out before he shot p

 

 

First, I can only speak for myself and what my opinion is and what I speculate that I would do in a similar situation.  I have not consulted with any of my "ref friends" before commenting.  This is just me offering my point of view.  I'm not even saying my opinion holds more weight than anyone else's.  Also, I did not have the benefit of seeing any of these live.  I can only go by the camera angle provided. 

 

The last caution called sure looked like a leg foul from the camera angle.  It only became an issue because he had already been cautioned twice before hand.  I think you would agree that it is the first two cautions that are in question. Am I right?  It looks like at the 2:12 mark on the video the mat official gives the red wrestler a passivity warning and then immediately starts prodding the blue wrestler for action.  This is a common technique that is taught to new officials to try and keep the cautions equal and let the wrestlers settle the match with action.  It looks like the first period ended with a score of 6-0 and a warning on red for passivity.  I saw a blue head up instruction at the 4:45 mark. and another blue head up at the 4:55 mark.  An action instruction to blue at the 5:05 mark. and another at the 5:10 mark.  He stops the action at the 5:17 mark giving an apparent caution for passivity.  I did not see a warning before that but I am assuming I just missed it when the mat official was off camera.  That would explain the blue wrestler being put in parterre. The second caution comes at 7:20.  There was a lot of time that the official was off camera so I don't know what he was doing.  He should have been instructing both wrestlers for action and contact, letting them know when they are in the zone close to the out of bounds line.  But again, he was off camera.

 

I am not sure about the charging head down rule you speak of.  I have not encountered that in the one year of experience that I have with these two styles.  Like I said, I'm new.  Maybe if you provide a time stamp to the action in question I would have a better understanding of your protest.  I have seen a lot of head-butts and if they get too aggressive then the action should be stopped and the wrestlers warned and then cautioned if it continues.  I did not see a point in the match that I thought a head-butt was excessive.  Again, my point of view.  Not saying I'm right and you are wrong.

 

And I already addressed my position on the foot out comment.  It looked like the mat official was in a good position to see the action at the edge of the circle.  From the camera angle, it looks really close.  Maybe the mat official should have been standing where you were or where the camera was to be able to see the action better.  (Of course I'm kidding with that last statement)

[Tyr 32]

So you think you saw leg foul .lol of course thats the question .He didn touch his leg and if there was any connection it was caused by Delaney in top moving as I said Austin stated his hands never left the mat hes very comfortable there and me and everyone else agree there was no leg foul thats the greco match .

As for the semi free your not allowed to lead with the head I saw other matches including Austins match with Boze where people get called for it .and no way his feet stayed in that ref was behind them on the mat not sure of the other .

My question to you was the Greco match Are you going to tell me my son and everyone on this Forum you see a leg foul him touching or grabbing that kids leg in parterre.And running head in full speed head down would obviously warrant a caution .

not kidding .

[ccbcdeke 43]

 

The last caution sure looked like a leg foul from the camera angle.

 

I can't say for sure that he did touch the leg and if he says he didn't then I have no proof that he did, since it was on the other side of their bodies.  (see quote above.) 

 

I tried to type slow and everything so you could understand what I was saying and I thought it was pretty clear. 

 

Man, Austin sure did wrestle some tough matches and he looked great.  I was proud to have a KY wrestler do that well.  That was my main point in posting, but I guess you can't see past someone having a different point of view than you.  I guess I should have known better.

[Tyr 32]

no its not that at All He did not touch the kids leg and even if to get Dqued on two stallings and a leg foul when way ahead is still bogus .

You stated it looked like a leg Foul from the angle I sure didnt see it I did see Delaney jumping around in top but Austin was pretty much Flat and focusing on staying spread out for his leverage .Never once did it appear he touched or grabbed the kids leg he was never even lifted or put in danger of being turned where he would have to be .Were I Dixons Coaches I would be happy my guy forced the takedown with an all out head first charge got away with stepping out for a second and won is what it is .The greco match was totally Botched .Austin deserved and Earned the right to Finish the Greco tournament as he did the Freestyle Tourny .on a Win and thats the difference .SHOW ME WHERE OR WHAT TIME DUIRINGBTHEVMATCH YOUR SAYING HE GRABBED THE KIDS LEG .no way was there a leg foul and he was in Parterre didnt get turned and didnt touch or grab the leg .The ref messesd the match upnwithout ? if you expect people to respect you then you cannot Flat out lie or change factsbto civer for Officials errors .Me on the other hand I will always root cheer and look for a win for my kid no matter what .He beat Dixon the whole match the ref gave it away in the end and opened it up for a last minute frenzied attack that most refs would have cautioned a kid for for just charging in with his head down and then got him for stepping out if not that but it is what it is .If you have to Totally Demolish everyone you wrestle to win Then so be it thatbis how it WILL go down next yr .Everyone can doubt and comment but it will happen .and That Greco ref was Horrible if I were an 18 yr old kid like Austin and had some ref take my match from me and ruin my day I doubt I would have handled it so well .Good thing He came back and got it done In Free .

[crazyotto 381]

I will preface this with re-stating what I said before, I do not agree with the outcome of the match against Delaney. However, all the chatter about leg fouls took me back to the video. In fact, there are two leg fouls. One around the 5:50 mark (not called but could have been), the other around 7:50 mark. Delaney even makes a motion with his hands like "what the heck". Ref was in much better position than the video. With this said, I still believe Myers was the better wrestler and to get DQ'd was bogus.  

[ccbcdeke 43]

At 7:53 video time Dulaney tries to lift and Austin turns and goes back to the mat.  Dulaney kind of throws his left hand out and I think the ref was indicating that the leg foul was on Dixon's right foot.  That is the foot that is blocked from the camera view.  That's what the ref called.  that's what you can't see on the video.

[Tyr 32]

Otto you are now totally exposed as a complete all out Hater of my kids earlier you state that you saw no foul then say Austin and Myself have a legitamate gripe and the match was Botched Now you say you saw TWO leg Fouls .

At 7:53 video time Dulaney tries to lift and Austin turns and goes back to the mat. Dulaney kind of throws his left hand out and I think the ref was indicating that the leg foul was on Dixon's right foot. That is the foot that is blocked from the camera view. That's what the ref called. that's what you can't see on the video.

That is completely not the case and you are now grasping at straws making yourself look Foolish and I am doubting your own intentions as well towards my kids myself and your integrity as an official if in fact you are one .

My sons have not wrestled these styles in years BUT before that they were both FR GR youth champs in Both Ohio and Ky Both Schoolboy and Cadet state champs in Ohio and Stephen a 3x Cadet AA and doubler himself .

For a first yr ref to come on to a site and and make excuse after excuse for a botched match by a ref is ridiculous .

Austin had perfect form and wrestled beautifuly on the bottom he fought hands when he had to and kept his base out and stayed flat when he had to all with minimal movement He had no reason nor did he ever grab a foot or leg Delaney was jumping around on top if his leg or foot hits austin that is his movement not Austins .

Otto you are exposed to say two leg fouls when there are none just shows your usual contempt towards me and mine and your underlying dirty goals on this site which many have brought out Before .

Cbcdeke I am thinking you need a new Hobby wrestling isnt for you my friend fabricating stories and outcomes and reasons for calls that are wrong only makes you look as if you are doing two things either covering for your refs or knocking a kid who got cheated out of a placing .

Dozens have seen the match all have agreed it was botched there was no leg foul or mysterious foot grab .

Anyone who knows anything about fr gr wrestling knows that kids get called for not opening up and kids on top get frustrated when they cannot move turn or score and often show desperation by throwing their hands up and looking at the ref .Delaney was well behind in scoring ,got a free chance for a turn and could not get it Because Austin had perfect form and a great Base thus he throws his hands up out of desperation looking for the ref to get Austin to open up which he was doing he just had too good of a base for Delaney to score .The ref Messed the match up and as many who were there know

The Officials from the greco match apologised to Austin Afterwards for making the wrong Call and said he should have won Which brings me back to you Otto you are a hater who has no buisness posting on anything to do with me or either of my Sons we have issues you and I and i am tired of your comments about. my sons .no bs I am done with your crap .

ccbcdeke .I will now assume you have a problem with either myself or my sons as well .Fabricating and making up stories of how you think a match went down or saying you think a ref made a call of of your hunch is a dangerous thing for someone who is supposed to be a ref something you have no right or Buisness doing The fact is you dont have a gd clue as to why the ref made that call and if you have and morals and wish to maintain any credibility amongst the coaches wrestlers and fans in this state you need to make that fact known .Because theres not one honest person in either the KY or Ohio wrestling community that has seen that match that agrees with it .

and I will take it you are simply another hater only worse a dirty ref who needs exposed and ran out of the sport .

[crazyotto 381]

Otto you are now totally exposed as a complete all out Hater of my kids earlier you state that you saw no foul then say Austin and Myself have a legitamate gripe and the match was Botched Now you say you saw TWO leg Fouls .That is completely not the case and you are now grasping at straws making yourself look Foolish and I am doubting your own intentions as well towards my kids myself and your integrity as an official if in fact you are one .

My sons have not wrestled these styles in years BUT before that they were both FR GR youth champs in Both Ohio and Ky Both Schoolboy and Cadet state champs in Ohio and Stephen a 3x Cadet AA and doubler himself .

For a first yr ref to come on to a site and and make excuse after excuse for a botched match by a ref is ridiculous .

Austin had perfect form and wrestled beautifuly on the bottom he fought hands when he had to and kept his base out and stayed flat when he had to all with minimal movement He had no reason nor did he ever grab a foot or leg Delaney was jumping around on top if his leg or foot hits austin that is his movement not Austins .

Otto you are exposed to say two leg fouls when there are none just shows your usual contempt towards me and mine and your underlying dirty goals on this site which many have brought out Before .

Cbcdeke I am thinking you need a new Hobby wrestling isnt for you my friend fabricating stories and outcomes and reasons for calls that are wrong only makes you look as if you are doing two things either covering for your refs or knocking a kid who got cheated out of a placing .

Dozens have seen the match all have agreed it was botched there was no leg foul or mysterious foot grab .

Anyone who knows anything about fr gr wrestling knows that kids get called for not opening up and kids on top get frustrated when they cannot move turn or score and often show desperation by throwing their hands up and looking at the ref .Delaney was well behind in scoring ,got a free chance for a turn and could not get it Because Austin had perfect form and a great Base thus he throws his hands up out of desperation looking for the ref to get Austin to open up which he was doing he just had too good of a base for Delaney to score .The ref Messed the match up and as many who were there know

The Officials from the greco match apologised to Austin Afterwards for making the wrong Call and said he should have won Which brings me back to you Otto you are a hater who has no buisness posting on anything to do with me or either of my Sons we have issues you and I and i am tired of your comments about. my sons .no bs I am done with your crap .

ccbcdeke .I will now assume you have a problem with either myself or my sons as well .Fabricating and making up stories of how you think a match went down or saying you think a ref made a call of of your hunch is a dangerous thing for someone who is supposed to be a ref something you have no right or Buisness doing The fact is you dont have a gd clue as to why the ref made that call and if you have and morals and wish to maintain any credibility amongst the coaches wrestlers and fans in this state you need to make that fact known .Because theres not one honest person in either the KY or Ohio wrestling community that has seen that match that agrees with it .

and I will take it you are simply another hater only worse a dirty ref who needs exposed and ran out of the sport .

Wowee, that's some harsh stuff. I tried my best to step lightly, knowing full well that you look for conspiracy where there is none. I never said there was no foul. Never. Show me please. If you cannot show me, then your silence will speak as an apology. Check your ego and reading comprehension. I stated (more than once!) that Myers got jobbed. I do not agree with the rules. It is obvious that Myers was the better wrestler. I gave him props for his Double AA. You somehow find a way to turn this around. 

Hey Grappler, thanks again for the recap. KY is on the rise. I believe that it is only a matter of time before the rest of the country takes notice.

[Tyr 32]

Nice try Otto lol you are allowed to split the legs just not grab or hold them at 550 aAustin is turning in as a good wrestler should to avoid a lift no grab and he makes constant attempt to keep his hands flat on the mat Delaney makes more than one gesture of desperation not being able to get anything at 750 Delaney has an overhook on Austins right aem lifts pulls his arm back and austins hands are clearly open and making attempt to stay flat that is Delaneys Movement NOt Austins and any contact is initiated by Delaney no grab no leg Foul Just a botched match by an obviously out of his league reg and some negative comments by some jealous haters out to diminish the accomplishments of one if the Best wrestlers in the country who happened to have The Best showing in Fargo of any wrestler in his class in the country and his states best ever run in this Tournament .I commend you in your attempt to sour the milk lol But no one will remember your or your board Games Austin on the other hand is already an Immortal in this sport in two states.

The Freestyle match was just that a frenzied mess at the end .and the Greco match with Delaney was totally wrong Botched and unfair to Austin .

[crazyotto 381]

Nice try Otto lol you are allowed to split the legs just not grab or hold them at 550 aAustin is turning in as a good wrestler should to avoid a lift no grab and he makes constant attempt to keep his hands flat on the mat Delaney makes more than one gesture of desperation not being able to get anything at 750 Delaney has an overhook on Austins right aem lifts pulls his arm back and austins hands are clearly open and making attempt to stay flat that is Delaneys Movement NOt Austins and any contact is initiated by Delaney no grab no leg Foul Just a botched match by an obviously out of his league reg and some negative comments by some jealous haters out to diminish the accomplishments of one if the Best wrestlers in the country who happened to have The Best showing in Fargo of any wrestler in his class in the country and his states best ever run in this Tournament .I commend you in your attempt to sour the milk lol But no one will remember your or your board Games Austin on the other hand is already an Immortal in this sport in two states.

The Freestyle match was just that a frenzied mess at the end .and the Greco match with Delaney was totally wrong Botched and unfair to Austin .

.....and I agree that I don't like the rules. So, since you cannot back up your accusations I will accept your apology and move on. 

[Tyr 32]

really 550 and 750 there is no leg foul if a hand touches a leg or a part of an arm or hand touches a leg that is not a foul if that were the case no one would escape parterre without a foul there can be no grabbing or holding of leg below the thigh and there was not at any time .

your a joke and trying to pull the wool over peoples eyes to down or discredit my complaints is typical of you Once again as so many times in the Past Why do you comment on Myself My Boys and their matches you have nothing to do with them you simply make attempt after attempt to discredit them .Never fear his future is much Brighter and his past much richer in History than those like you seem to be able to bear without constant Harassment .I am looking forward to the year ahead and the surprises that are in store for those like you the haters the rankers and the runners .

on Further review Dixon clearly stepped out when circling for the shot .

LoL what you need accept is your an idiot wannabee.

[ccbcdeke 43]

Is he reading the same posts I am?

[Tyr 32]

I read your post you said Delaney threw his hands up because of a foul that was not visible from the angle of the video .which was a straight up lie and your own attempt to take up for a ref botched matchb.Austin never grabbed a foot he did however grab a head hit a slide bye and get some guts.Something you losers lack