TwoEightyFranck94 16 Report post Posted February 22, 2014 It seems that every year the quality of wrestling in Kentucky goes higher and higher. Inversely the quality of refs drops. Is there anything that can be done to get some higher quality refs here? The refs need match the skill if the wrestlers. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WatchYourAnkles 1 Report post Posted February 22, 2014 A wise man once told me, "You can never blame the refs for the outcome of your match, you put yourself in that position to give them that opportunity." Take Initiative and become an official to solve this "problem." Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TwoEightyFranck94 16 Report post Posted February 22, 2014 Well I'm already working on that. And I agree you shouldn't let the red decide the match. However, I saw a lot of calls be made wrong or not at all. For example I watched an OT match where a st. X kid was behind the other wrestler and the other kid put his hands on the mat. That should have been a takedown to win but the ref never called it and let them continue. St. X lost the match and was cheated. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FalconWrestling 147 Report post Posted February 22, 2014 You'd like to think you can take the match out of the refs hand. But let me tell you sometimes refs can and do decide matches. But that's the sport of wrestling, you gotta get used to bad refs Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ukpridewrestler11 276 Report post Posted February 22, 2014 Take your test next summer and officiate. I know most of these refs out there and they are working their tails off. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WatchYourAnkles 1 Report post Posted February 22, 2014 You'd like to think you can take the match out of the refs hand. But let me tell you sometimes refs can and do decide matches. But that's the sport of wrestling, you gotta get used to bad refs gotta get used to bad wrestling? or do you reflect on the mistakes that you made during that match to let the decision/criteria of the referee determine the outcome? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jbigdaddy 8 Report post Posted February 22, 2014 I have seen this same topic every year since I began as a head coach (finishing 6th season), and someone always posts that if we perceive an issue we should all become officials. First thought is who would coach and most of us wouldn't get any work because of the influx. Becoming an official doesn't solve the problem. Most refs, especially at state, truly are the best. I rarely have had a complaint. With that said, all of us know at least one ref who doesn't stay on top of the match, gets out of position, and / or misses or makes a call at a critical moment. I assume they all work hard and genuinely want to improve their abilities. I don't think there is a solution. To me the big issue is the inconsistency. One ref is big on stalling, the other is keenly observant of riding the hips. One ref will call stalling when a wrestler takes a step back, as we were told they have been instructed to do, while others simply seem not to notice the back peddling across the mat. At the end of the day, all of us have a tough job and we all make judgment calls pertaining to our responsibilities. There is no real solution about the refs, and all of us becoming officials to fix the problem is ludicrous. We just learn to live with whoever gets assigned to our mat. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mike Calhoun 49 Report post Posted February 22, 2014 I had spoken to a ref recently and he had brought up a good point that I think we tend to overlook. We all know how long days at tournaments can be, but the refs spend more time on the mats than the wrestlers. They are on their feet most of the day and by the 11th hour they might not be as quick on their feet as they were that morning. I agree that there should be a higher level of consistency, but find a sport where every call is correct, from the minors to the majors. All be it I will still continuing yelling out and mumbling "how did he miss that" but I appreciate the zebras who take the time to correct our kids and not only call them out. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Keepyourheadup 10 Report post Posted February 22, 2014 A wise man once told me, "You can never blame the refs for the outcome of your match, you put yourself in that position to give them that opportunity." Most of the time I would agree but last year the ref screwed Logan jones on a bull crap slam call. Also seen the same bull call on a Midfle school kid at MS state Take Initiative and become an official to solve this "problem." Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TwoEightyFranck94 16 Report post Posted February 23, 2014 Take your test next summer and officiate. I know most of these refs out there and they are working their tails off. Just because you are working your tail off does not mean you're doing a good job. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rjs4470 103 Report post Posted February 23, 2014 Referee.....the only job (well except coaching) where everybody else in the building thinks they can your job better than you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tarzan 21 Report post Posted February 23, 2014 Sorry there are good one and bad ones and Terrible ones and I saw one ref make tons of mistakes over and over - and over - I think most are very good and do work hard a great group of guys for the most part but a couple that just shouldn't be there , pretty much like every job no ones perfect . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pioneer_pride 1 Report post Posted February 23, 2014 Well I'm already working on that. And I agree you shouldn't let the red decide the match. However, I saw a lot of calls be made wrong or not at all. For example I watched an OT match where a st. X kid was behind the other wrestler and the other kid put his hands on the mat. That should have been a takedown to win but the ref never called it and let them continue. St. X lost the match and was cheated. My son wrestling at super 32 a few years back lost a match for this exact scenario. He arm dragged the kid 3 times, got behind him....kid put both hands on the mat, even had all his weight on his hands. After the match I complained to the ref and showed the video to the tournament director. Director said two of them were no chance one was questionable, but it was explained to me that a wrestler has to have "reaction time". So if their hands hit, and they pop back up quick enough I was told its not a takedown. Prior to that tournament I was told the rule was if they shift their weight to their hands its a takedown. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Leonidas 0 Report post Posted February 23, 2014 I really didn't think the refs done to bad this weekend.. Sure they were some mistakes made but were never going to have a state tournament that is perfectly called, that simply doesn't happen in any state or nationals. I personally think the wrestlers and coaches need to work on what they can control, because the element of human error will always be present. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigedcoach 27 Report post Posted February 23, 2014 You cant criticize the refs until you get out there yourself. I just wish they would call a bigger mat or change the out of bounds rules to college. I did see a lot of line dancing in a few finals matches, so many refs forget the its a responsibility to wrestle inside the 10 foot circle Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CoachK 2 Report post Posted February 23, 2014 My problem with the refs is two of the best two in the state weren't even wearing shirts to ref. They should have taken the two worst that were on the mat and put them in the position of errand runner and paper person instead of those two. Also I think there needs to be a better use of the two refs on the mat. The whole purpose for having two refs is not to just catch the wrestlers when they go out of bounds, but to look for locked hands and pay attention to what is happening in the match and make calls and discuss things to get the best outcome in the match. Not to say "well Im not the official you need to ask him". And then when you ask the head one he shouldn't say "its my call". Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigedcoach 27 Report post Posted February 23, 2014 The mat assistant or 2 ref system, second ref doesn't make calls, its to help with time , to watch for positioning, not to make calls.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CoachK 2 Report post Posted February 24, 2014 The second ref is there to look for locked hands, out of bounds or other calls that the first could not see. They are there to assist the first one in the calls if asked or if questioned. Correct, not to blow their whistle and stop action or interrupt it. But if they see locked hands they are allowed (and expected) to call it or let other ref know. As well as out of bounds takedowns etc. They don't need help with time, there are two table workers and a buzzer for that for the other 755 matches and it goes just fine with one then. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tarzan 21 Report post Posted February 24, 2014 Refs can and do change the outcome at times and some are bias for whatever reasons , don't paint a picture of perfection no one believes it . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Demolition 1 Report post Posted February 24, 2014 No matter the sport.... No matter the level... The referee calls will make somebody happy and somebody else mad. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tarzan 21 Report post Posted February 24, 2014 Its all good if its the right -honest - callIts all good if its the right -honest - call Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TwoEightyFranck94 16 Report post Posted February 24, 2014 Its all good if its the right -honest - call Its all good if its the right -honest - call Exactly. If the right calls are made for against who I want I can't argue. But when the wrong calls are made regardless it make me angry Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigedcoach 27 Report post Posted February 24, 2014 Tarzan, don't have a heart attack but we agree on something (might wana change you meds after this) One of the best Dave Barnett stories I like to tell was at the Bluegrass State games; he was sitting in the bleachers and some one said aren't you going to the mat to ref aand he turn to that person and said "According to you guys, you can see more up here than I can down there. So Ill just ref from here" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigedcoach 27 Report post Posted February 24, 2014 I believe that 99.5 percent o the refs I have seen have gave an honest effort to their abilities and the .5 % is now retired. One of the hardest thing about officiating wrestling is that there is so much left for digression, it doesn't have the concrete rules of baseball, it relies on human judgment. Im extremely knowledgeable of the rules but because of my size, I wasn't the best official even though I did a lot of the top tournaments when I wasn't coaching. I missed calls, I enforced things that other refs didn't enforce. Heck a parent once told me to wait right there while he goes and gets his shotgun. as long as he makes the same call every time he sees it, he is trying as hard as he can. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sigep567 3 Report post Posted February 24, 2014 Two Eighty Franck - I officiated and am now a coach. Even with my officiating experience I still have issues with refs. My kid won the match that you claim the St. X kid got cheated. You are welcome to have your own opinion. Control is established beyond reaction time. I agree that reaction time is subjective, just like a lot of our rules are. I wouldn't go as far as to say a kid was cheated based off of your opinion of what reaction time is. My opinion is the match wouldn't have even been in overtime if the ref hadn't made a poor call for the St. X wrestler. My kid earned that win. It was hard faught and no one gave him anything. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
