State tournament time table

[bumstead 13]

This whole situation is unfair,upsetting, and frustruating. I for one will be going to work making some money and missing out on entertainment I was looking forward to. Me and my wife had plans to make both days, stay over in a hotel, eat out at some nice dinning establishments, and make a nice weekend of getting out after the long and arduous winter we have endured. Now I suppose I will be at work, keeping tabs with what's going on

with trackwrestling. I hope as many of you that can will follow my lead in this. Those of you that have to attend (because of a child in the event,or

you just could't bear not to) help the cause and boycott the concessions stands. put people in front of the stands with posters. take a sandwich in one pocket and a pop in the other. Heck I will donate $50 to someone willing to sit outside with coolers of pop and give them away to people.

[bumstead 13]

yea, I got one of them form letters too. looks like their just replying to every e-mail with this same garbage. most likely, not even reading the messages. 

[lakercoach2 0]

same response I got

[firemans34 33]

Received exact same form letter....politician!

[coachteater 70]

They want to get out earlier for safety, that's understandable. But we gave them a solution. All they have to do is add 2 mats for the earlier rounds. It would greatly increase the start time of finals and you would still be able to have 1 mat finals. It's not rocket science, they just don't wanna listen.

[sigep567 3]

How about when the 106 championship final is supposed to start they just don't wrestle.  All coaches would have to be in agreement that their wrestler does not step on the mat.  I'm talking from 106 all the way to heavy.  They can't make them wrestle.  It would be a PR nightmare if they started forfeiting both kids and didn't have a true Champion. 

[Mike Calhoun 49]

Or maybe figure out a way to stall until the other matches finish, like both kids step onto the mat with their laces untied and take six or seven minutes to tie them.

[fanofwrestling6 14]

Agreed coach. I loved Dustin Turners email that's from a kid who is first class all the way. I'm going to send an email as well just to add to there headaches regarding this situation. Doubtful anything will change but none the less to ad to the cause.

[thegreatgatsby 23]

Has anyone even thought to give this a chance? I remember when wrestling cut districts and went to region-state. I remember when kids with braces were required to wear mouth guards. Or when the weight classes changed. Or when we moved to the Horse Park? There was some whining and belly aching, but it worked itself out.

What are we teaching our kids through this? That if you do not like something you should write a letter and cry about it? Is this how we want them acting as adults? Is this how we should act as adults? No. Concentrate at the task at hand and get after it. I believe this will be reviewed AFTER and maybe something will change.

I haven't read one comment about how someone has an idea to help. I understand the timing and safety issues. I have two suggestions to maybe resolve this.

1-the arena is HUGE. Lay down two more mats and add at least another round to Friday. Keep running on 8 mats until we get to the consolation finals (3 mats). Then break to one mat for championship finals.

2- Go back to district-region-state format. Top 4 from district go to region. Top 4 from region go to state. The best of the best in a 16 man bracket. Finals on one mat.

I always hear, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." Well, getting out from a wrestling tournament after 11 pm is broke. This change came because of timing and safety. And in case some of us haven't noticed, this winter has been terrible to wrestling this season. So I say, let's see how this goes. Then send feedback to our coaches and athletic directors so they can bring it up at the review. Please do not boycott or protest our wrestling state tournament.

[hoehn.marcus 22]

What are we teaching our kids through this? That if you do not like something you should write a letter and cry about it? Is this how we want them acting as adults? Is this how we should act as adults? No. Concentrate at the task at hand and get after it. I believe this will be reviewed AFTER and maybe something will change.

I haven't read one comment about how someone has an idea to help. I understand the timing and safety issues. I have two suggestions to maybe resolve this.

1-the arena is HUGE. Lay down two more mats and add at least another round to Friday. Keep running on 8 mats until we get to the consolation finals (3 mats). Then break to one mat for championship finals.

2- Go back to district-region-state format. Top 4 from district go to region. Top 4 from region go to state. The best of the best in a 16 man bracket. Finals on one mat.

First, I believe that we would be teaching our kids the democratic process.  If we are not satisfied with how things are being done, or disagree with decisions being made, we act in a manner which is peaceful in nature; but the key is to ACT.  Voicing our opinions is an important part of teaching our children that they have a voice and should not assume the position of sheep being herded through life by the more powerful figures in our government or organizations of which we may belong.  

 

Second, I believe several have offered solutions or ideas to fix this.  The coaches association proposed one solution, in the form of a proposal which went unread by the KHSAA.  

 

How about when the 106 championship final is supposed to start they just don't wrestle.  All coaches would have to be in agreement that their wrestler does not step on the mat.  I'm talking from 106 all the way to heavy.  They can't make them wrestle.  It would be a PR nightmare if they started forfeiting both kids and didn't have a true Champion. 

Or maybe figure out a way to stall until the other matches finish, like both kids step onto the mat with their laces untied and take six or seven minutes to tie them.

 

 

I do not have my rule book on hand, but does anyone know if there is a set time limit for reporting to the mat once your bout has been called? If there is a five minute limit to reporting to the mat once the bout has been called, then the finalists could use that five minute time to wait out the other matches.  Just a thought.  Great response to this.  We should also get this trending on Twitter for all those young technologically superior teenagers.  Like Mr. Turner exhibited, it is these young men who are being affected the most.  Their voice should not be denied, as these are the kids whom KHSAA claims to serve.  

[Momma 0]

SENT to Julian Tackett and Mike Barren.  I'm sure I'll get the form response, but the more outcry they receive the better!

 

Dear Sirs,

 

I am the proud parent of a 7-year wrestler.  I have watched him and his teammates suffer wins, losses, injuries, blood and tears in the hopes of making it to the State Tournament each year.  Not all do, but it’s not for a lack of trying.  I understand the mission of the KHSAA is to honor as many of the state’s nearly 450 qualifiers as possible.  But to wrestle the four placing matches simultaneously is antithetical to your stated mission.  Making it to State IS memorable for each and every wrestler.  Those that are not the “best” feel an unforgettable sense of accomplishment just by being able to walk in the Parade of Champions in the Opening Ceremony.  Even if they go two and out, they know they made it to state!

 

For those that are the best in their weight class, not only do they and the fans have to hope the most anticipated match is not in the semifinals, or even earlier, based on the random draw pairing, now they know that their moment to shine has been taken away from them.  From the very organization that claims to espouse the “honoring the student athlete” mantra!  The KHSAA’s actions for this very unique sport undeniably prove otherwise.  There is no harm done to the finalists if they are allowed to have 6 minutes devoted to their match.  Those that are at the top are being scouted for coveted scholarships.  Some have Olympic aspirations (and I am sure you heard about the WORLDWIDE protest when the Olympics considered removing this sport from the schedule).   No other sport in KHSAA has the finalists battling each other individually.  It is not cross-country, where the fastest wins, or track and field, where fastest or farthest, dictates the outcome.  It is not a team sport where each player must rely on his/her teammate’s performance.  It is only two young men (and someday soon, women) that not only have to physically outdo each other, but mentally as well.

 

Running a state tournament takes months of planning, and long hours from many dedicated individuals to make a successful event.  I am well-versed on how much work goes into just my school’s single day events that are miniscule in comparison to State.  That being said, the KHSAA resembles the NCAA too much, in that the student-athletes are seen as commodities and not individuals that have worked for years to have their moment of true recognition.  I urge you to truly listen to the coaches, parents, and wrestlers (current and past) on how erroneous your decision this year is, and change it accordingly.

[bumstead 13]

This fight should not be on the backs of our young wrestlers, who have already sacririced and worked too hard to be asked to forefeit their chance at history. No This is our fight. We should teach them to stand up against injustice. every decision made by the establishment is not always the correct one. and It's up to us ADULTS to mske some sacrifices to show are young men that we appreciate their efforts, and stand behind them.

[bumstead 13]

Let's setup a tailgate party outside the arena in the parking lot. We'll have brats, hotdogs,hanburgers, drinks and such. for anyone who does have to purchase a ticket, they can come outside and enjoy FREE refreshments.

[Momma 0]

Received this from Julian Tackett.  At least it's proof they're reading the emails/complaints.  Still feels like a pat on the head kind of response, but it's not a form-letter response.

 

"Thanks so much for taking the time to share your thoughts. As you say, months and years worth of information gathering, research, risk minimization strategies and all other aspects of these events goes into the planning. Nothing is dismissed without consideration. And the various constituencies including the coaches, officials and administrators were consulted and offered input. And nothing in these events, wrestling or any other event, is ever change for the sake of change. It also appears a bit short sighted to simply say, "don't change" when one has not really thought through or analyzed, or evaluated, a potential change in action. We will as always, evaluate all of our events post tournament, and discuss and consider any other necessary changes.

 

That all said, there is not a single regular season meet or event that comes close to the magnitude of issues and scale as do the state championships. And for that reason, what is done in small events may not be able to transfer to larger events and venues. In this case, some necessary changes were made to ensure the health and safety of the fans, participants and all involved, as well as address travel concerns and travel cost concerns that may not be on the same magnitude for teams within one hour of the site as they are for those out in further reaches of the state.

 

Again, thanks for sharing your thoughts and I sincerely hope you and others continue to support the event, however, that is your choice. "

[WHS98 34]

hoehn.marcus I was going to post the same thing about teaching our kids to standup for something they believe in as long as its peaceful. The khsaa said they wanted to make the tournament memorable,I remember when I coached youth wrestling and a kid made it to his first finals face-off the look was more memorable than anyone I had ever seen from him. My son did not make the final's last year and he try's to use that to motivate him this year,plus he wanted to watch it not wrestle at the same time. Heck his older sister had never seen a state finals wrestling tournament and she was so excited about it she told him he better work his butt off in the off season because she wanted to see him out there.She also lost her job this year because she told them she couldn't miss his state tournament,she may have went to far but she became a big fan last year.

[firemans34 33]

I'm still having a very difficult time understanding where safety of fans and participants comes into play. What?! Safety? In the form letter response I received he mentioned a coach from each region was on this Advisory Committee and they all had input. Is this a total fabrication? How much input did the coaches honestly have on this topic?

[coachteater 70]

The advisory committee was told they wanted to change. We expressed that we were totally against it in a letter and and gave them options to keep them from doing this. And as far as I'm aware,they never talked to anyone in person. The safety concern is late night travel. They are scared someone will wreck, then blame it on them for going late. But it seems that they have their mind made up on how to fix it and are not willing to listen to anyone else's ideas.

[rjs4470 103]

This whole situation is unfair,upsetting, and frustruating. I for one will be going to work making some money and missing out on entertainment I was looking forward to. Me and my wife had plans to make both days, stay over in a hotel, eat out at some nice dinning establishments, and make a nice weekend of getting out after the long and arduous winter we have endured. Now I suppose I will be at work, keeping tabs with what's going on

with trackwrestling. I hope as many of you that can will follow my lead in this. Those of you that have to attend (because of a child in the event,or

you just could't bear not to) help the cause and boycott the concessions stands. put people in front of the stands with posters. take a sandwich in one pocket and a pop in the other. Heck I will donate $50 to someone willing to sit outside with coolers of pop and give them away to people.

I would hesitate to call a boycott to the event.  Maybe the kids won't care, but wrestling for a title in nearly empty arena, diminishes the atmosphere as well.  No need to further penalize the athletes.  

[Keepyourheadup 10]

I agree don't punish the kids with a boycott, but we can refuse to but anything. Also the shirt ideal from any earlier post was a decent one

[wrestlingbooster 7]

This is the reply I got from Mr. Barren.  Has anyone else gotten a reply? I don't under the safety issues to the wrestlers....

 

Thank you for the feedback. The Tournament management issues were discussed with the Advisory Committee made up of wrestling coaches representing every region, and our staff meets regularly with various other states associations about tournament management. Nothing done in the event management that the staff does here is done on a whim, it is carefully reviewed and considered, with the kids and safety elements being the number one concern. Any changes developed by the staff, factor in many more issues than a finals schedule. Forgive me that emails don’t always express tone very well, because I don’t want to sound as if I am not listening to your concerns. I just have a different view of our mission. I believe our task is to provide the safest and most memorable experience possible for as many of our student athletes as we can. It would greatly reduce the variables of running a wrestling tournament if we only were to highlight the eight Regional champions; notice I didn’t say eight best wrestlers in the state, because sometimes the second or third best might be in the same region as the best. But if we wanted to “showcase” them, it would be easy to bring in those eight and do a one day tournament that draws attention to those eight. We are bringing in 448 wrestlers to one site, to give them the memory of competing in a State Championship. Being a parent of two high school athletes that are not as talented as the very best, I know they work just as hard to be the best. They may never get to have that experience, but I’m thankful that their high school Coach and Principal and the staff here at the KHSAA work very hard to give them the best possible high school athletic experience. It is our task to make sure that the 5^th and 25^th place finisher has just as safe and memorable experience as the most talented wrestler. As always, these events are reviewed in depth following each competition, and I am sure there will be such a review after this one as well. We will strive to find how we can increase the experience the everyone.

 

Thanks again and I wish you the best.

This is the same reply I received.  It sounds like they are trying to make sure no athletes are left out.  Somewhat like the little league teams who give participation trophies to all participants.  What will be next, not keeping score and awarding medals to all participants in the state tournament???  I never made it to the finals match when I wrestled.  However, I was in awe of the folks that did.  They did something I could not and they have my respect!!  There is only room for two in the final match and those two deserve some respect and notariety for making it this far!  Keep on sending he emails and letters!  Call everyone you know and lets put some pressure on the KHSAA to do this right!

[bumstead 13]

as I see it, everyone can wine and murmer about it, and yes the athletes would be penalized by not having

stellar attendence. but before you decide to roll over ask yourselves, "Whats Next?" maybe we will have to suffer a little now to insure future Champions and runner-ups. get the respect and attention of past champions.

[Tapout 12]

Safety concern for the kids... Really.

They play football and soccer games in the rain and sometimes snow. I attended many cross country meets where the courses looked like mud pits....

None of their answers are anything less than B.S......

Keep piling on the emails and calls!

[naplesme 58]

They (Barren & Tackett) keep harping on safety. It sounds like they are more worried about the shenanigans that go on before the finals. If that’s the case then lets us as coaches, fans and wrestlers police ourselves and prevent the 10 pounds of toilet paper, beach balls, and all the other garbage from being thrown across the stadium. I’m sure we would be willing to police that, as long as the finals got the recognition they deserve. They also seem to worry about no one being present at the heavyweight match, so follow the NCAA’s lead and make another match the final match. I know we wouldn’t leave early if Brock Ervin’s match was last. I want to see history possibly being made.

[rjs4470 103]

as I see it, everyone can wine and murmer about it, and yes the athletes would be penalized by not having

stellar attendence. but before you decide to roll over ask yourselves, "Whats Next?" maybe we will have to suffer a little now to insure future Champions and runner-ups. get the respect and attention of past champions.

And not showing up this year isn't exactly showing respect to the this years Champs.  Is getting your point across more important than being able to witness some of the finest athletes in the state perform, and giving the the opportunity to do their thing in front of a large crowd??  Is it up to us to decide that this year's group gets to pay the price??  I'm not defending the the decision, but asking for a boycott, is like throwing the baby out with the bath water. 

[WHS98 34]

Yes but the problem with doing nothing is nothing happens