Hammer and Anvil

[Tarzan 21]

Otto the hammer and anvil thread ended long ago !

[crazyotto 381]

IWIN and Tarzan, my point exactly. I see a new post in this thread only to find it to has nothing to do with the tourney. Per usual, another thread hijacked.

[IWIN 49]

Oh Otto, don't be such a Debbie downer. I'm sure all of your wrestling forums up north ALWAYS stay on topic. So sorry to carry on conversation. From now on we will always stay on topic......scouts honor. Haha, scouts, not too much honor there anymore.

[Tarzan 21]

No hijacking the thread went elsewhere no need for more of your personal attacks questions and opinions were asked and given the hammer and anvil was over long ago doesn't matter if a thread stays on topic it's not a forum rule we could talk about anything on any thread if it wanders that way ???per usual your crybabying is more like it ,don't be so sore about the way things are going

[Tarzan 21]

State champs 12 , state dual champs and state runners up 13 , I will let you know this weekend or in a few weeks if I consider them a dynasty for sure , a team that dominates in any sport for three yrs in a row I would consider a dynasty ,

A team that dominates a region for a few yrs could be considered a dynasty , it all depends on your criteria , but if a team could be runners up three times in a row to different teams I would consider them a dynasty even without the win .But the W makes it official .state champ team with nationally ranked kids and champs , duh yeah that's a dynasty even in any haters book .

[bulldog-leader 56]

Hey I'm a sucker for nostalgia.  I still think that Babe Ruth was the best baseball player and Micheal Jordan the best basketball player.

 

Oh I know the 90 team would lose to the three or 4 big names on the 12 team (ATM would have to sit the dual out because there was no 220 in 90) LOL.  (and no bumpig wt. classes).

 

When I compare teams I try and think what they would do in that era with that era's knowledge.  (Meaning if the new teams go back they would get the same training as the old teams and vice versa) 

[IWIN 49]

Bulldog, I know what your saying but there can always an arguement to either side. It's fun to speculate, but there is never a true way to say for sure what would happen. For instance, take Joe Carr Jr at 119 vs Nathan Boston at 120. I can debate both sides as to who would win. I've got my opinion, but it is strictly my opinion. I would say that for the most part, our elite wrestlers today are better than our elite from yesteryear. Just like in 10 years our elite guys will be better than the ones from today. Isn't that what we as coaches and parents want? To teach our next generation better than what we were taught? Just like a parent always strives to do a better job than our parents did. Nothing is wrong with that. Sometimes we are successful, sometimes we are not. But we always continue to try. The debates are fun, but really there is no need to argue them. State your opinion and move on.

[dutch 178]

I talked to bandkamper at ms regionals today and told him about the debate. He said he might have to give a slight edge to the 04 team. He said that team never lost a dual or tournament. He did also mention the 90-91 team. Campbell county has a great tradition. I'm sure they have a few more tough teams coming in the future.

[Tarzan 21]

The perfect team , what a dream , I don't think Bankamper goes for perfect seasons anymore I would love to debate this with him , most of the tournaments CC does in the beginning of the year they could never win they have 3 kids in one weight and three with forfeits and JV tournys with the weights that are absent in the varsity with 3 wrestlers in those on the same days ???, not what I call going for the w , and the 04 team didn't wrestle the schedule of the 12 ,13 team not even close , they would have gotten hammered at GMVWA against a Graham or some of the others , a perfect schedule against a weaker field ? Not a better team at all but hey he's the coach that's his call his opinion , probably not as much scandal on that 04 team with transfers and all either lol , no Sam no ATM and I don't know but I would bet no nationally ranked kids like them and Fausz who helped coach win a NHSCA coach of the yr award !!!!no JR Sr Fresh Soph AA , no Fargo placers , no Big school recruits like Yenter ,

No 3 or 4 timers No one who could take out top tournaments in Ohio with first period pins week after week , no fans from that time watching the wrestlers from that team on the big ten network lol

Ah the good old days , now I am depressed ,absence makes the heart grow fonder , pins and wins against the best write history , ten or eleven yrs from now history buffs will remember teams from CC that actually beat and won big tournys in Ohio leading The way I doubt anyone remembers CC first ever Sr All American but I am sure they will remember his brother CC first ever three timer and four timer and a bit more about him .and when thinking back on a twelve team with four state champs that had so many who would win and win state again on it the 12 team will stand out quite a bit with so many firsts on it .

And the questions and taunts of transfer and where will they go next will be forgotten , being replaced with one word - Four ,

Pick your favorite teams everyone will have their own of course people will choose the ones with those closest to them if it's possible "if that answers any questions about any and everyone " but in the end facts wins and awards will answer all questions and remove all doubts , in a world of limited knowledge of the sport and media that caters to the unknowing about a sport that most do not understand it's not very hard to create great athletes or teams from what those who actually understand the sport would actually agree with , in other words leading the blind is no great feat , good thing even the blind can count and understand a word UNDEFEATED and bulldog ATM was forced to wrestle 220 when he could of and still could make 195 he would have won four at any weight he chose from 182 up !!!

and had some of the weaker hearted kids on CC team have made weight and Its scandalous coaching dads had not sabatoged the weight plans of the team forcing a kid to stay below their state weight untill a week before the state tournament CC may well have won two in a row instead of use it's top scorer from the yr before as a scapegoat for its lose and the failings of its non transfer wrestlers -

[bumstead 13]

Like I said, you don't know anything about Ky wrestling. Jeff Fitch Was a 3x state champ from Woodford Co. Not Newport Catholic. Also could you get somebody to show you how to use spellcheck? Grammer and punctuation would also help tremendously when trying to decipher your unusually

long rants.

[bulldog-leader 56]

it was only a joke about the no bumping wt. classes.  Wow someone can't take a joke.

[Tarzan 21]

So in other words , I debunked all your comments and made people actually face old fantasy with modern facts and you with your self proclaimed superior knowledge of the sport past and present as well as your superior typing / English skills resorted to personal attacks on ones writing skills lol , I don't know Fitch or anyone else from NCC who wrestled you were talking about NCC and threw a name out , and before you question someone's knowledge of my wrestling you should question your own on wrestling as a whole or in the nation unlike yourself and most in KY I do not measure my own or a team on how well they do in such a limited space or against such limited comp , as for training or wrestling in the catholic leauge I know two brothers from CC who dominated it one still has all the underclassmen records in it and dominated the whole state winning the CIT with ease by pin in the finals as a fresh , both of whom still remain the most winning duo in jr high and underclassmen. History in southern Ohio an one who is about to be the most winningest wrestler in KY history ,don't preach to me "pun intended " about some now defunct team that practiced with teams in Cincy that the 12 team had a member of whom dominated , it simply proves my case for what team and kids were better . The walls of the GCLs most dominat team are littered with the accomplishments of a fesh at the time who blew away conp on that CC 12 team and no one on the 09 or 04 team or few if any ever won as many HS tournaments in as many leagues or states as he did , I'm still laughing about the NCC posts and now the 90 and 04 ones as well , and as for coaching and training someone has done a decent job of it as well with their own sons lol

It ain't golf but I'm shouting FOUR and it silences all the noise from the hecklers and doubters . And people like yourself who falsely claim that anyone from the past they have seen dominated as easily ,one more yr and it's not only four but UNdefeated and if anyone is thinking well we will push ATM up to iron man since our homies are out of harms way to lose that streak to preserve some glimmer of hope for the future and the hometown boys it's all good ATM will simply stay off the cc gridiron and dominate the iron Man , simply tell him your plans ahead of time , sending a football player to iron man with only a couple weeks to prepare is wrestling suicide no one else in ky history could dream of it after a football season .

You totally misjudge how good someone actually is or the true confidence some have in their ability . The best is the best period not just in Ky , no running to avoid comp no dodging weights or anyone else that's what the big Gcl south your so proud of did when they bumped CC from entering their beloved Swowca to avoid their champs getting beaten , another joke after you talking smack about teams of yesteryear training with x and the rest of the gcl hahahahah

You are lost in this sport simply one of the blind I spoke of earlier being led ,but it's okay ATM is shedding some light on the sport for you

[Tarzan 21]

And yeah Otto that means all your fav southwest Ohio teams we're scared $heetless!!

[bumstead 13]

To know everything about where ky wrestling is and nothing about it's history is rather limited knowlage. Kyle Ruschell, 2x state champ and one of the most decorated college wrestlers ky ever had. 4X qualifier for NCAA Champoinships 2X all american. Asst. coach at Wisconsin. Wrestled for Ryle. His father and another of his coachs both wrestled for Newport Catholic. if you would do more reading and less writeing on this web site you

could learn a lot of the history your sons will one day be a part of.

[Tarzan 21]

Kyle is awesome but he is not his dad lol , or his brother and now you are talking college not HS and comparing it to kids who are in HS or just out of it , and I don't have to read anything I lived it been there while it happened , I don't need to read or write I have trained coached and travelled seen two of those camels wrestle the best in the country for yrs saw Kyle wrestle fr and gr state in HS while two brother won fr gr state , actually set across from him while he coached his brother against Sam and Sam won handily , doesn't mean anything has nothing to do with a dynasty or who the best HS wrestler / wrestlers are or were .and again NCC lol ,

Here I will name drop a few kida for you that I have seen a couple CC kids from that team wrestle win and lose against , Tuma , Dance , Whitford , Collica , Bright , Tucker , Chisko , Jordan , Jordan , Martin ,Schafer on and on and on Chakonis , Robinson Harding Heil , and on and on ,you actually think I just write stuff up without backing it with facts ????

As for HS I would put a two time fargo AA up against a two time ky state champ any day as far as cred and a doubler against any three timer ?? If you want to talk college give Someoe a chance to actually graduate HS first lol ,

So tell me how many undefeated nationally ranked kids did NCC produce , I don't know but let me answer for you --0-- as in not even close .

If you would have done more coaching training and travelling over the last ten yrs you wouldn't make such ridiculous comparrison ,

You compare some guy who read then wrestled to a youth jr high and HS nat champ who has been trained by multiple x nat champs and Olympians , not that you have to have ever wrestled to raise champs

I know someone who never wrestled a day in HS and his kids have won quite a few titles lol

Guess your an NCC homer sorry about your team they don't even have one let alone a few nat ranked kids .

Your lack of real knowledge of the sport is evident name dropping Ruschell is pretty much your last ditch effort to say whatever it is you are trying to , bottom line CC is a dynasty and there is not or has never been an ATM an Sam for that matter in Ky HS history , no one from the CC 04 team or 90 team and no one who ever wrestled at NCC kids .

I know a little about History Kyle placed at NHSCA Sr nationals and that put him on the map

Sam placed at Fargo before he ever set foot in HS but was on the map way before that , an he placed at NHSCAs twice he Fausz and ATM all placed there last yr and ATM won it for the second yr in a row , care for some more history lessons ,

[bumstead 13]

How's that spell checker working for ya? Oh by the way, I was never associated with Newport Catholic.

poor guess though. But I was around for the first ever undefeated state champ CC ever had. Jimmy Porter.

[bulldog-leader 56]

I don't think anyone has doubted ATM's supperiority over anyone on any of the past CC teams.  The discussion was the team not the individual.  Having 3-4 studs on the team does not win the dual if you lose the rest of the matches. (not saying that would happen). 

 

Once you get past ATM, SAM, Yenter and Fausz (All definate wins on the 12 team).  That is when the debating begins.  Who wins the other 9-10 matches in the dual?  (only 13 wt classes in 90).

 

no one is trying to degrade anyone or any team.  It's fun to discuss these topics.  Nothing more.

[Tarzan 21]

Guess what ,you were around for KYs not just CCs first ever Fresh undefeated state champ over 170lbs it's first ever soph undefeated state champ at 220 it's first ever fresh nat champ it's first ever fresh nat champ and Ow winner ,

And guess what:) if your lucky you might make it around to see CC first ever 3 x state champ - and before I forget hes totally undefeated all throughout HS ,

Not to concerned with spell checker more concerned with winning

Oh yeah I forgot FOUR coming up alway set the bar so high everyone else can only look up .

Well put that 12 team in a legit dual with nothing but national stud and I have no doubt who would come out ahead , Frank Mathews Sparh Turner and the rest all hold their own ,

[bumstead 13]

I agree whole heartedly Bull-dog. like when Mike Nolan from CC beat the returning 2X state champ Cooper from SK in the finals at 152 in 04 (anyone else remember that match ?)He was not going to be denied.

Now ,before you say anything Tarzan, I would give the edge to SAM over Nolan. And by the way, Nolan's father

also named Mike won state While wrestling for NCC.

[bumstead 13]

Gotta go now, History lesson is over for today class.

[Tarzan 21]

Yeah I would give the edge to Sam over both Nolan's and anyone who ever walked up the hill to set in a desk at NCC . Considering he was the first person in the history of CC to ever win state titles in two states three AA s in Fargo and two at NHSCA s place at iron man as a fresh Powerade dominate Cit and get four pins and a tech at state yeah pretty much a no brainer .

As for history Sam was not really a transfer he graduated from the same school district he started in , just an interesting fact and he wrestles in college in the state he was born in .

And History is written by Champions and those that make it , ATM is quite the historian .

[JDamron 4]

I'm sorry did someone just call a state runner up team the greatest team in Ky history??

[Tarzan 21]

I'm sorry did someone with 12 posts just say something :/$:637:! Stupid , I think it's a conversation about CC teams , but if you want to go there the twelve team has some credentials and members on it that have done some things no other Ky wrestlers have ever done and a handful who will and are wrestling at the next level , now if you want to talk best HS Wrestler bring it , you will get buried in facts wins pins OWs Rankings and an undefeated Record all while maintaining a nice grade level and a nice football career. lOl

[JDamron 4]

That's great!! There were some very good wrestlers on that 2012 team. But all the individual awards in the world won't make a state runner up team better than any other team in te state EVER. So, no, someone with 12 post didn't just post something stupid. They ask a legit question and got a assanine answer!! Lol

What was the national ranking for that team??

What was the national ranking for that team??

[Tarzan 21]

You are without a doubt the most lacking in knowledge of wrestling information individual in the State , The CC 2012 team were not runners up they were State Champs the 2013 Team were Runners up , now who is assanine .

Not sure of where they fell in national ranking I do know they had more Nationally ranked wrestlers than the 2013 state champs !!!