State Champ Dual

[IWIN 49]

This seemed to stir some interest a while back, so I am going to try my hand at it. My State Champ Dual would have the 1996 Champs vs the 2013 Champs. So here are the match ups.

103/106 Chris Valentine WC vs Jorge Vega Fern Cr

112/113 Shaun Smith ChCo vs Nathan Boston WC

119/120 Jason Talbott OC vs Trae Blackwell UC

125/126 Jeremy Rhodes ShCl vs Brock Ervin UC

130/132 Scott Rhodes ShCl vs Sean Fausz CC

135/138 Kevin Case HaCo vs Paul Hamilton CC

The weight classes get kind of weird after this but still great match ups.

140/145 Joe Carr WC vs Justin Lampe St X

145/152 Ian Horn WC vs Kevin Cooper SK

152/160 Tony Stewart Sc High vs Gabe French St X

160/170 David Moore HC vs Lane Jones WV

171/182 Tendai Charasika St X vs Hiero Chamblee SK

189/195 Miguel Merritt Hoptown vsThomas Noe Southern

215/220 Livingston Merritt Hoptown vs ATM CC

275/285 Ryan Putoff Conner vs Bobby Bryant Trinity

This in my opinion would be a good one. At 103/106 I'll take Valentine over Vega (pin.) 112/113 Boston over Smith (maj dec.) 119/120 Talbott over Blackwell (dec.) 125/126 Ervin over Rhodes (dec.) 130/132 Fausz over S Rhodes (dec.) 135/138 Case over Hamilton (dec.) 140/145 Carr over Lampe (maj dec.) 145/152 Horn over Cooper (maj dec.) 152/160 French over Stewart (dec.) 160/170 Moore over Jones (dec.) 171/182 Charasika over Chamblee (pin) 189/195 Merritt over Noe (pin) 215/220 Match of the night. Finishes in the parking lot leaving 12 men, 8 women, 3 kids, and 2 dogs injured in the process. Seriously, this would be a nasty war. Gonna go with ATM over Merritt (dec) and lastly 275/285 Bryant over Putoff (pin) Final score = 1996 wins 35-22

[TWO!!! 4]

IWIN, I agree with '96 champs (A BUNCH OF MEN) winning the dual and most of your picks individually but that Boston and Smith match would be a close decision. Smith was very strong, extremely quick and probably the best off his feet between the two groups. I'll be the first to say Boston is an AMAZING wrestler and will go on to ISU and do great things but I feel this match-up could go either way. Ask yourself this...would the score of a Smith/Gus Adams match been 2-1... Oh yeah, you're definitely right about the Myers/Merritt match being matching of the night but like I said that '96 class where a bunch of MEN. I'll take Merritt; just a freak of nature and to powerful in the end. Being around KY wrestling all of my life, I'd go as far to say some of the runner ups, 3rd and 4th place finishers were better than some of the '13 champs. For example, take the '96 top four state placers at 119: Talbott, Delk, Dunn and Peterson. Between the four was 7 state titles ( Talbott 2x, Peterson 2x beating Talbott in '95, Dunn 3x & Delk runner-up upset Peterson in semi '96), which one of those wouldn't have beaten Blackwell (tough wrestler). Now im not taking anything away from todays' kids, they have made great strides for KY wrestling and I am proud of their HARD WORK but that '96 class was pretty stout. This is a great post and I love the Old vs New matchups.

[IWIN 49]

Glad you liked it UnderDogg. Your right, those guys in 96 were men. I'm still going to have to disagree with you on the Boston Smitjh match up. Boston is 151-1 in his high school career not to mention pretty legit on the National scene as well, being ranked #1 and all. Can't judge him on the Gus Adams match, we all have those days. In my opinion, I think it stays with 3 until the 3rd period. Smith gets a little tired, and Nathan opens up. That's the cool thing about these threads, everyone can probably provide good arguements for a match to go either way. Fun stuff. P.S. Christian Co was pumping out some monsters in the 90s. Shaun Smith, Grady Peterson, Anthony Smith, Rodney Hawkins, Damian Leavell, Chris Perry etc.

[Mpire 76]

More powerful than ATM !!!! ?????

More knowledgable than ATM !!!!!????

More skilled than ATM !!!!!???????

Been around a while so have some of my friends who are amongst the strongest Men on the Planet Earth , never saw Merritt , but he did not have anywhere near the strength / Power of ATM , and as for wrestling I would feel confident in saying Austin knows as much as any last wrestler in ky history about the sport its technique and moves , as for defense NO one has his and anyone doubting his heart and nerve need only go back to his fresh yr in his match with the Indiana state champ Robinson down by a point because of a bogus fleeing call after going of the Mat with 14 seconds left ATM goes to work without hesitation sets up an inside trip and wins the match , Galen Robinson himself would have overpowered Merritt with ease , just saying and I could go on and on records wins and weights speak for themselves ,

And I see no one from 96 who could beat Boston get real he's a top ranked kid in his class same for ATM lol have fun living in the old glory days people I doubt Ky has or ever will have two kids make the impact that Boston and Austin has and will , same for Brock and there's a couple more I could name but because of a point loss I won't lol , no Hvy or 215 or 195 from the past in ky could have bêaten ATM , but I guess that will become a bit clearer here over the next few weeks ,

Kind of sad people even daring to say anyone from the 90s could beat a Boston or ATM , sad and dumb

[TWO!!! 4]

mpire, a little advice before you speak... read first and if you don't understand what you're reading then read it again. It was never stated that Boston would have lost to Smith, it was stated that the match would have been close. Furthermore, for you to have never seen Merritt is enough said and if you never seen Merritt then that probably means you know very little about the '96 class. So I have no words for you buddy, done talking; end of discussion ;-)...

Austin, stay humble and hungry, skies the limit for "YOU". Keep your eyes and ears open to what's going on around you and don't let ones' ego define who you are or what you stand for. I respect you as a talented young man, a wrestler and how hard you work at your craft. Keep up the hard work, I think you're an awesome wrestler!

Enclosing,

A fan of ONLY the Myers brothers

[Mpire 76]

Lol a fan who says some 215 from the 90s could take out ATM , sorry but you trying the switch and bait on me won't work with either my son or any fan person who knows us , of course I would take up for my son ---- goes without saying but for your information I may have neve seen Merritt wrestle but plenty have told me he was no ATM I have talked to past state champs from ky from yrs oast they do not even know half the moves Austin does lol , as for your comment TOO Powerful in the end not likely , more like to Powerful from the handshake your talking about a kid who blew up the National DL and bench press records get real , many many college hvys not 220 or 215 or 197/5 would be easily overpowered by Austin right now and he hasn't wrestled his first match of his jr yr , take a poke at me so what say a talented but way outdated champ from the 90s could beat a two time HS nat champ who has been a nat champ at every level and who will be KYs first ever four timer anywhere near his weight ,seriously werher you were baiting me or your that uneducated about te sport doesn't matter , your comments trying to knock me and praise my son in an attempt to cover your self is laughable ,

Your boy would have faired about as well as anyone else in ky or any ither state has and will and as for your comment about ky losing all its best kids next yr The best is here and yet to come .

And ole Mpire doesn't need any advice from you or few others hahaha I think I have done well enough at creating Champions without following advice from haters detractors fakes and buffoons all of wich you fall into the category of .

[heightsdad 3]

Didn't one of the Merritt's play D1 linebacker at Alabama?  

[TWO!!! 4]

Miguel Merritt was the one who played at Alabama

[heightsdad 3]

It's hard to argue ATM's national credentials, L Merritt  was a 3x champ, 2 @ 215 and 1 @ heavy.  I don't want to speculate on a winner though.  

[coachteater 70]

Just my 2 cents, but Merritt played linebacker at Alabama. You don't get there without being a beast, even in the 90's. I watched him myself, and just physically he looked much stronger, but honestly who cares.

[TWO!!! 4]

Again, read first and if you don't understand then read it again... It was clearly stated by me that "KY wrestling will be losing some very exciting/outstanding wrestlers after this season. I can't wait to cheer these guys on at the college level. Congrats to all!!!"... As for the comment "Out dated champ from the 90s", you're showing your TRUE love for KY because Merritt represented KY wrestling very well with his outdated self, as did a lot of other "OUT DATED" wrestlers smh lol. Oh yeah, why every time someone disagree with you, you say... ugh well you're just uneducated about the sport bahahaha. I know, I know... you're the infamous mpire and you're always RIGHT. Sir, yes sir!! I could talk to you all day but I rather pick my nose. Boy, you keep me laughing (in my eddie murphy voice).

[TWO!!! 4]

Coachteater, you're so right. We could go on all day about who would win what match-up but who really cares. With that, I am done. Thanks coachteater.

[Mpire 76]

Really I do not , either i know who the Better wrestler is and so do most people with knowledge of the sport ,

As for Alabama that's awesome he must have been a great ball player but....... That's not wrestling and just for kicks does anyone think any current Alabama football players could beat Austin in a Match , one of my best friends played for the Canes back in the day a beast with a national championship ring defensive end who terrorized the best in the country 1st round draft pick played for the colts --- Austin would have pinned him in seconds --- an irrelevant comparison ,

[IWIN 49]

Guys guys guys! The whole idea of this thread was meant to stir conversation, but not get heated over. It's all in good fun. Fun to think about those guys years and years ago. Kentucky wrestling has grown leaps and bounds, but that doesn't mean that some of the past champs couldn't have best some of the guys today and vice versa. I do like these kind of topics though. Just remember, these matches will NEVER happen, it just makes for good conversation.

[Mpire 76]

Outdated has nothing to do with knocking ky and in no way implies any thing negative towards ky ,

You try to gain support by making people think a statement means something other than what it clearly states outdated means outdated a wrestler like Austin or Boston who has spent hrs upon hrs in rooms being coached by multiple time national champs from the 2000s and after and who have wrestled in the current age of the sport would obliterate most wrestlers from the past had someone said a wrestler from Ohio in the 90s would beat Austin I would have came back with the same reply they are outdated and in Austin's case as well as Boston's waaaaaay out coached , of course someone's past accomplishments current accomplishments or the superior coaching and training they have received amount to nothing compared to some rednecks idea that well billy bob played for bama so he must be better lol that's funny that's the fact you my friend are uneducated about the sport not because some obsessive dad says so but because you fail to understand the very nature of this and every sport it has advanced , regardless of wether anyone likes me how or why I say the things I do or even care for my son , facts are facts .

And yes the redneck comment was a stereotype aimed at Kentuckians one that someone who would say anything like well he played for bama so he must be a great wrestler helps perpetuate ,

Anyway I win you lose ATM gets four and could do so with his hands behind his back --- literally ask anyone who has ever seen him do it

[IWIN 49]

How do I lose? I had ATM beating Merritt. Oh wait "I win" not Iwin. I get it now! Lol

[Mpire 76]

Lol didn't mean you Iwin its all good ,just a bit hard to believe what some kids have to do to earn respect evidently some can do everything and still not get it , and its obvious that people still see ATM as an outsider but its cool he was born in Ky all my family was and my love for Ky was always shown when I made it clear this Ky boy would handle all his comp from OH back when I did what I did , and by my comments taking up for this state from day one I guess I said outdated 90s and it was somehow misconstrued as a knock on MY And now ATMs state yes Win refers to him as the "Kentuckian "cool as stuff ,

Anyway I admire someone's passion for the champions of the past t but 15 yrs from now if some four time state champ and multiple time nat champ who hasn't losta folk style match in over four yrs fan says they could beat Austin I would probably argue as well but say well you should the sport should advance but honestly there will be no more ATMs for the bluegrass I would bet. as he will do what none in his class have or will ever do again , I think when its said and done he stands alone , and yes he can and does play the football as well but this is a wrestling site about wrestling nit football powerlifting MMA or basketball wrestling , at best Merrit would have gotten away with only being majored !!!atm won 220 as a fresh who should have been in the 180s and a Soph who should have been in the 90s now he is a legit 220 and this whole thread will be forgotten by yrs end when jaws have dropped and kids who have faced ATM last memory of their match with him was how bright those damn lights were bwahahahahahahahah that's fact

[coachteater 70]

Mpire, I don't see any place where someone said merritt was better then your son because he played at Alabama. And as for why I brought it up, you had never seen him, so I tried to give you a comparison of him, he was an sec linebacker, so I knew you would understand he was not an average guy. You asked "more powerful the atm?", in my opinion, possibly yes. The thing is, no one knows, but even though in your own mind you may not think so, but someone could be stronger. People have respect for your boy, but the time to compare someone to the best, is after they are finished themselves. Till then, enjoy the ride and best of luck.

[Mpire 76]

He obviously was not an average guy he was a state and multiple time state champ you/ someone brought up football to use as a measure a decent point usually but not a big factor when talking wrestling elite , most of Kys best wrestlers other than probably Merrit or ATM could not have a shot at playing ball because of sise ,an before anyone says Jude Bryant or anyone else we are talking wrestling elite , Brock Boston Fausz the three sr studs this yr , couldn't dream of playing college ball !!!!! Fact is it was brought up to use as a basis for Merritt being better !!

As for power in your opinion possibly that's your opinion ,

As a former KY state IPF teenage powerlifting champion who broke every record in the state and as a six x Ohio open powerlifting champion who has trained for over 35 yrs and competed for over 30 and has trained with trained and who has seen ATM train with some of the best power lifters on the planet, since he was a kindergartener and made fans of them all no chance in He(( Merrit or anyone else in the past or currently wrestling in ky could be considered more powerful than ATM ,

And as for straight up wrestling your talking about a kid who was ranked sixth by win in their top 20 at 220 last yr as a Soph in a field Where there was only 1 Soph in the top 20 "ATM "and who has been ranked since grade school placing 3rd twice and winning Tulsa as a youth

As for waiting until they are finished to compare - Austin is only half finished and has already accomplished easily more than Merritt did ,

As I said the year is upon us soon everyone will see and after next yr not this one everyone can pass judgement on just how good Austin is was and will be , or better yet simply snatch up ATM and go a period with him .

Not trying to hurt any feelings but at the same time the biggest compliment a kid can get is he is a hard worker and I have seen no one work harder than Austin ,

His day yesterday went like this , school , wrestling practice , youth practice helping coach then training in our gym till midnight only a couple days after the end of his football season when most two sport guys would and were home chilling , he can't be beaten wont be beaten not by any loss or any one who cannot maintain his drive or focus , and I have seen no one like Austin EVER ,

No one period he's money a machine a for real life Terminator .

[Mpire 76]

Just saw him and read numerous articles some of wich were falsely reported stating he did not lose to a ky opponent in HS , that would have made him a four timer anyway sure he was good but after further investigation I think ATM would have pinned him .

[wrestler 3]

"mpire, a little advice before you speak... read first and if you don't understand what you're reading then read it again. It was never stated that Boston would have lost to Smith, it was stated that the match would have been close. Furthermore, for you to have never seen Merritt is enough said and if you never seen Merritt then that probably means you know very little about the '96 class. So I have no words for you buddy, done talking; end of discussion ;-)...

Austin, stay humble and hungry, skies the limit for "YOU". Keep your eyes and ears open to what's going on around you and don't let ones' ego define who you are or what you stand for. I respect you as a talented young man, a wrestler and how hard you work at your craft. Keep up the hard work, I think you're an awesome wrestler!

Enclosing,

A fan of ONLY the Myers brothers"

 

 

UnderDogg....maybe the greatest post ive ever read on this site hahaha

[coachteater 70]

I give, I knew better then to try to add insight to an argument that means nothing, but not again. Only one thing I have took from this. "Humility is not thinking less of yourself, it's thinking of yourself less"

[wrestler 3]

I would pay the entry price to see Meyers vs Merritt alone. Getting to see beasts like Tendai Boston and Carr does not hurt either

[Tapout 12]

All I have to say about the old vs new debate is that any of you who believe the individuals or teams of old could win against the individuals or teams of today........ you are dreaming. There are always exceptional individuals such as Carr Jr but they are the exception and not the rule. To say that the 96 team would have won more than a couple of matches is just not reality.

I believe you could pick the best Woodford team, or what many consider some of the most dominating teams ever, 04 CC or the Oldham team and they would not have won the state tournament these past few years.

It's great for the state as a wrestling fan but I agree with Mpire, to think the oldies would hang with the newbies as a whole, you are just not paying attention to the sport.

Just my opinion! :-)

[coachteater 70]

And I could be wrong, but I know many high schools changed and didn't add 9 th grade to high school till around the mid 90's. Merritt may have only wrestled in his high school yrs, which may have been 10th-12th

As far as past and present, present kids are way advanced as a whole. I agree there are exceptions that could hang today, but as a whole its much tougher to even place now, let alone be a champion. Youth ,

m/s and club are exploding, wrestling will continue to keep improving in the future.