offseason 3 Report post Posted March 14, 2013 A lot of people complain about how the heavyweights in the finals are pretty much just wrestling for their team & family! Well I say we do what the NCAA is doing. Make the finals start somewhere around the 182 or so weight classes and then work their way around to the lighter classes to finish off the night! I think this would give a lot of fans the insintive to stick around anticipating a good match in the lighter weight classes and this would give the heavy weights more of a finals type atmosphere! What are your thoughts on this??? 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ranger123 43 Report post Posted March 14, 2013 Already had that on the agenda for MS state. NCAA stole our thunder. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Irish Wrestler 10 Report post Posted March 14, 2013 I think that is an awesome idea! Anyone want to bring this to the KHSAA's attention? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mat-king 4 Report post Posted March 15, 2013 Leave it alone. What message would that give to the heavy guys "hey you wrestle slow and no one likes you so you will now wrestle in the middle or first" That is wrong. And thats even coming from some one who finished his high school season at 152. But come on we are not the ncaa, and with doing that in middle school? WHAT they are even younger and imagine what they will think when they get passed off and basically told that no one wants to watch them wrestle. NCAA I understand because they are trying to boost ratings and those are MEN. But here in KY we are still young for the most part. We all talk about how wrestling builds up a young man to be great but what you do when you tell the big guys that no is interested in them wrestling...... that is complete opposite. It will tear them down. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HWT 4 Report post Posted March 15, 2013 Leave it alone. What message would that give to the heavy guys "hey you wrestle slow and no one likes you so you will now wrestle in the middle or first" That is wrong. And thats even coming from some one who finished his high school season at 152. But come on we are not the ncaa, and with doing that in middle school? WHAT they are even younger and imagine what they will think when they get passed off and basically told that no one wants to watch them wrestle. NCAA I understand because they are trying to boost ratings and those are MEN. But here in KY we are still young for the most part. We all talk about how wrestling builds up a young man to be great but what you do when you tell the big guys that no is interested in them wrestling...... that is complete opposite. It will tear them down. I have to disagree. If a heavy in the finals watches any of the other finals matches, they see a large crowd. When they go to step on the mat, the arena is nearly empty. I think that is more discouraging. Switching the arrangement of the finals is a great idea I think. Draw a start order every year so it constantly changes. You don't explicitly announce, "hey, heavyweights, we are going to switch the order of finals so more people watch you." You simply state the order of the finals will be 152 then X, Y, Z. Simple. Nothing demoralizing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
J.W. 21 Report post Posted March 15, 2013 Mat-King - they already notice the place is empty when they are wrestling. I understand your comment, but this way they would get to wrestle in a loud atmosphere. They know that everyone has left now. They don't get mad on a blind draw at a duals match. They still go wrestle. Again, understand your points, but either they wrestle in an empty arena, knowing everyone left, or we blind draw and end up with them possibly wrestling in a large crowd. You have to see that point too. JW Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ranger123 43 Report post Posted March 15, 2013 I don't look at it anywhere near the same way matking. I'm not basing my thoughts on how exciting or boring any weight classes are. 100% on the situation. It happens at all levels of wrestling. Everyone is there for the start of the championship round and slowly but surely the crowd diminishes. All of the coaches turn in their outstanding wrestler ballots before the finals are halfway complete. Then the big guys step on the mat with only friends and family watching. No reason for it to always be that way. Absolutely nothing to do with quality or money or any other negative viewpoint. Just giving all the finalists an equal shot at the big crowd and a vote from the coaches that leave early. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
plantmanky1 58 Report post Posted March 15, 2013 Why do the finals have to be in order? Why cant we random drawl the finals weight classes out and wrestle them that way? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IWIN 49 Report post Posted March 15, 2013 Not to be a debbie downer, but what's wrong with keeping the finals the same. We change all the time, and I understand change is needed from time to time, but this seems to be to a bit much. To me, there are certain traditions that you just don't mess with, and the order of the finals is one of them. Heck, I still don't like having to have a random draw at duals, but I'll give a little on that one. You want people to stick around for the upper weights, teach them how to wrestle. I saw a 220 yesterday that moved like a much smaller wrestler. He was so quick and strong. Really a treat to watch. I gurantee if more upper weights would learn to wrestle like that, you wouldn't have to worry about people leaving. I hope the KHSAA keeps it the way it is. I'd back them on it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cmccoy 4 Report post Posted March 15, 2013 I may be wrong but I think the only reason the NCAA did it the way they did is because of the match at the end of the night. Taylor vs. Dake. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dscicle 6 Report post Posted March 15, 2013 Coach McCoy is essentially correct...they are doing it so the Dake vs. Taylor match is the premier event and everything culminates up to it. BUT...the NFHS and NCAA rules allow for a draw to occur for matches in tournament finals. Can't "randomize" them as plantmanky1 suggested, but you can draw like 126 and go from there, then loop back around to the other lighter weights. I'm all for it because it does allow the heavier kids to wrestle in front of a larger crowd. I think it will only help wrestling. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ranger123 43 Report post Posted March 15, 2013 Coach McCoy is essentially correct...they are doing it so the Dake vs. Taylor match is the premier event and everything culminates up to it. BUT...the NFHS and NCAA rules allow for a draw to occur for matches in tournament finals. Can't "randomize" them as plantmanky1 suggested, but you can draw like 126 and go from there, then loop back around to the other lighter weights. I'm all for it because it does allow the heavier kids to wrestle in front of a larger crowd. I think it will only help wrestling. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cmccoy 4 Report post Posted March 15, 2013 Im not against it in any way. Just from reading other sites, Im pretty sure they had something else in mind although they will never admit it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
grappler-of-old 44 Report post Posted March 16, 2013 I think that the one problem with this is how the kids in each wt. class get ready for their matches. HWT's are use to being last in all touneys all year, and are use to time for getting ready. I know when I just bumped up 3 wt. classes one year It took me a long time to get my routine down. I was use to being the 1st or second match, then I had to get use to waiting for 4 matches to get completed. I didn't get use to it until about christmas when I finally got my routine down agian. This is the same reason I don't like the random draw at duals. You get a kid who is use to a routine of watching a few matches and concentrating on his match, then you change it and he is the 1st to wrestle, that could change the whole dynamics of his routine and being ready for the match. Remember wrestlers are very superstitous and very routine orientated. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ranger123 43 Report post Posted March 16, 2013 Good point goo. But when you are talking about the state finals the delays and routines are usually different anyway. With awards and such the normal "4 match wait" now feels more like 6 or 7. And with setup and everything there is time to adjust to moving up earlier in the program. Plus, what I have noticed these days is that kids have much less of a routine than we did back in the old days. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eville dad 17 Report post Posted March 16, 2013 Sounds like an idea worth a try. Not sure you wont have emptying stands at the end of the night regardless whos wrestling, but it could help? I dont think it would affect the heavy's they realize its more about the timing and duration of along two days that is affecting the crowd more than the lack of interest. I love watching the bigger boys go at it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mat-king 4 Report post Posted March 16, 2013 Still the heavy guys know that you are changing it because of them! Keep it the way it is, if the khsaa has a slight clue they wont change it up. Just because they dont hit super ducks as fast and they hit knee picks instead of ankle picks means nothing. It is just another type of wrestling. and hey if I remember correctly at the end of this year the wrestler most were talking about was one class below heavy lol Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ranger123 43 Report post Posted March 16, 2013 Still the heavy guys know that you are changing it because of them! Keep it the way it is, if the khsaa has a slight clue they wont change it up. Just because they dont hit super ducks as fast and they hit knee picks instead of ankle picks means nothing. It is just another type of wrestling. and hey if I remember correctly at the end of this year the wrestler most were talking about was one class below heavy lol Yes, they may know it is because of them and for a positive reason. How many times does a heavy win MOW? Not often because most of the votes are turned in well before. Just simple timing. Not style or technique or level of domination. Timing. They see other kids who catch their attention during the finals, decide not to wait around until midnight to see all of the finals, fill out their ballot after 160 and go home. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bocowrestling 14 Report post Posted March 17, 2013 I had a hwy this year and he was in the finals a number of times and most of the people were gone or getting their stuff ready to leave while he was wrestling. Either wait to give out medals for all to the end (which would tick everyone off) or just do a random draw at the beginning to determine where to start the finals. If that is what you would do at a dual, why wouldn't you do that for an individual tourney as well. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IWIN 49 Report post Posted March 17, 2013 Hey, it might be fun if we wrestled the State Tournament in November. That way people don't have to wait til the end of the season. What agreat idea!! We could say the heck with weight classes, who needs them, right? Why hire refs, they cost too much, we can have parents as refs. Oh, I know, we don't need to use mats either, they are pain anyway. Maybe we could incorporate a ball in our sport, that would be cool. As a matter of fact, let's not even call it wrestling. The Olympics don't need it anymore, why do we? I love thinking outside the box. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eville dad 17 Report post Posted March 17, 2013 Yes, they may know it is because of them and for a positive reason. How many times does a heavy win MOW? Not often because most of the votes are turned in well before. Just simple timing. Not style or technique or level of domination. Timing. They see other kids who catch their attention during the finals, decide not to wait around until midnight to see all of the finals, fill out their ballot after 160 and go home. With the real problem being how late the last matches are wrestled, not who happens to be wrestling at the end. What changes could be made so the tourney doesn't run so late? Start earlier? Faster Medal Ceremonies? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
