Ask the Ref

[sigep567 3]

Why are refs who don't know simple rules allowed to officiate Region and State?  For one the difference between just pushing someone backwards and aggressively attempting a takedown.  Refs where throwing out stalling calls like crazy for nothing more than pushing.  If you don't know that you have to stop a match when the wrestler on top is called for stalling then you should not be an official at the Region or State tournament.  This happened multiple times to my wrestlers this weekend.

[TwoEightyFranck94 16]

One ref i think should ref state is Tom.

[Haystack 12]

Definatly not a takedown when it was called. WHen the top wrestler takes it to the mat he then has control.

[crazyotto 381]

http://bit.ly/12H0ZID Was this really two? When I seen it I really didnt think it was.

 

Here no.

takedown without a doubt.... http://bit.ly/XKr0Pt

Here yes. Once the defensive wrestler's hand touches the mat it is a takedown, assuming he is covered, which he was.

[ukpridewrestler11 276]

Same thing I was thinking Otto

[Mike Calhoun 49]

Exactly what I thought when I was sitting there watching the match, and the photo just confirms it, especially since you can see the ref in the background in the picture throwing two up when there hadnt been two scored yet.

[heavy83 15]

 on stalling you don't stop the match if its called for not bringing the the wrestler backto the mat. If it's called for staying on the hips it is stopped. It was changed because if you stopped the match while on their feet it was actually punishing the bottom wrestler.

[ccbcdeke 43]

http://bit.ly/12H0ZID Was this really two? When I seen it I really didnt think it was.

are you telling me that you can absolutely tell from a still photo that the wrestlers hand was not down a second before this photo was snapped and he picked his hand up?  I can't tell by the photo what happened in the seconds before that.

[crazyotto 381]

Exactly what I thought when I was sitting there watching the match, and the photo just confirms it, especially since you can see the ref in the background in the picture throwing two up when there hadnt been two scored yet.

The ref did call it early. Has this guy reffed Stephen's matches before? The few times that I saw Stephen wrestle this year (per video) this seemed to be his go-to move. I am betting the ref had seen it before and was assuming the takedown. In the end, the call was made correctly.

[Mike Calhoun 49]

are you telling me that you can absolutely tell from a still photo that the wrestlers hand was not down a second before this photo was snapped and he picked his hand up?  I can't tell by the photo what happened in the seconds before that.

No I was there in person, then happened to see the photo, which I believed confirmed that the two was given way early. Were you there? Did you get to see the call? Or are you the one just looking at the photo?

[ccbcdeke 43]

I was on the floor and watched the entire match. granted I wasn't watching as intently as you probably were, but like I said, I can't tell by the photo what happened just before it was taken.

[heavy83 15]

halfhalfhalf   A official can overrule a doctors note but majority of the time they don't. Cannot explain on the situation mention was not there. Seems to me there should of been an on-site athletic trainer there if was a regional. My opinion it  should be required. By the way that really sucks catfan sounds like you did everything right

[Mike Calhoun 49]

I was on the floor and watched the entire match. granted I wasn't watching as intently as you probably were, but like I said, I can't tell by the photo what happened just before it was taken.

Since you probably had a different angle than I, did you feel the call made at that particular time was correct? I was only using the photo for reference, I felt the two was early and realize he eventually obtained the position but had French pulled out and the two had not been obtained it was too late because the points were already awarded. This was a championship match and that couldve been a fatal flaw.

[crazyotto 381]

Since you probably had a different angle than I, did you feel the call made at that particular time was correct? I was only using the photo for reference, I felt the two was early and realize he eventually obtained the position but had French pulled out and the two had not been obtained it was too late because the points were already awarded. This was a championship match and that couldve been a fatal flaw.

The ref could easily wave off the two, no problem. Happens often.

[Mike Calhoun 49]

The ref could easily wave off the two, no problem. Happens often.

Also seen where they cant suck up their pride and admit to being wrong or they actually believe their wrong call was correct. Its a tough job and none will ever get every call correct, I'm not being critcal, just interested in the opinions of others as to the call.

[crazyotto 381]

Also seen where they cant suck up their pride and admit to being wrong or they actually believe their wrong call was correct. Its a tough job and none will ever get every call correct, I'm not being critcal, just interested in the opinions of others as to the call.

Well, you make a good point there! I have seen NCAA refs stick with their original call even after video review shows otherwise.

[TwoEightyFranck94 16]

I thought the call was early during the match too. They were facing away from us so it was hard to tell when French's hands hit the mat. 

[pioneer_pride 1]

So what is the official rule regarding when a takedown is scored in this case? My son was in a very similar position at the super 32 a few years back. He lost by 1 and was a match (or maybe 2) away from placing. What I had heard prior to thatbis if wrestler defending the takedown is putting most of his weight on his hands then it is considered a takedown. In otherwards if he is leaning forward as in the second picture its 2 points. Is that correct? If so my son got screwed at super 32. I asked the ref, tournament director and they said the ref should allow for "reaction time".

[crazyotto 381]

So what is the official rule regarding when a takedown is scored in this case? My son was in a very similar position at the super 32 a few years back. He lost by 1 and was a match (or maybe 2) away from placing. What I had heard prior to thatbis if wrestler defending the takedown is putting most of his weight on his hands then it is considered a takedown. In otherwards if he is leaning forward as in the second picture its 2 points. Is that correct? If so my son got screwed at super 32. I asked the ref, tournament director and they said the ref should allow for "reaction time".

I believe the rule states that once the defending wrestler touches the mat it is a takedown. I have seen it called this way many times, but I am not a ref. Stephen hit this same move against Marinelli. Same reaction (hand to the mat), same ruling (takedown). As for reaction time, well I don't know. The reaction was touching the mat, and Stephen had control on the way down. NCAA calls this a takedown instant the hand hits the mat. Not sure if high school is different. I like the move when it is "completed". In other words, when the scoring wrestler has his opponent down on the mat. When the defending wrestler is able to keep his feet there is no chance to ride and/or work for a turn. The scoring wrestler is off to the side and there is potential for a reversal.