Out of Bounds!

[grappler-of-old 44]

that's a lot like Tommy Storms getting pushed back by Roy Gibbs and getting called for stalling in OT to lose in the state finals.  ;-)  that one stunk (IMHO).

Plee:  This seems to be a sore topic for you. :evil: :-D

I remember the match myself.  I'm not saying I agree with the call, but I knew it was going to happen. C'mon the past aint gonna change 

JK I couldn't resist.  :evil:

[Ranger123 43]

Plee:  This seems to be a sore topic for you. :evil: :-D

I remember the match myself.  I'm not saying I agree with the call, but I knew it was going to happen. C'mon the past aint gonna change 

JK I couldn't resist.  :evil:

I considered referring to the same match myself as I knew it would find a special place for a lot of northern Ky guys out there.  FYI, I was okay with the call myself, but was a bit biased.

[grappler-of-old 44]

I also was bias. 

Sorry pee, but I was rooting for Gibbs also.

Great kid, and had a bum shoulder in the finals. (That is if my memory is correct, remember us old guys sometimes have memory loss) :-o

[Ranger123 43]

I also was bias. 

Sorry pee, but I was rooting for Gibbs also.

Great kid, and had a bum shoulder in the finals. (That is if my memory is correct, remember us old guys sometimes have memory loss) :-o

You are correct.  He had a separated shoulder.  It happened in the semis when he spanked Pat White, prior year state champ from Hopkinsville.

[pioneer_pride 1]

Plee:  This seems to be a sore topic for you. :evil: :-D

I remember the match myself.  I'm not saying I agree with the call, but I knew it was going to happen. C'mon the past aint gonna change 

JK I couldn't resist.  :evil:

grappler-of-old, i can't believe you were rooting for a non-nky guy.  i used to like you.  i knew it was going to happen too....in all honesty, tommy stalled a bit in that match, no question.  i think the warning was the right call...but in the end, gibbs shot, tommy sprawled and maybe backed up 6 inches...and got nailed for stalling.  terrible call.  BUT....gibbs charged at him, because he knew storms had a stalling call...and tommy should have anticipated that.

since we're bringing up gibbs sore shoulder, tommy was a natural 125, and could have easily, easily cut to 119....and most likely would have won either of those weight classes without breaking a sweat...but stayed up for the good of the team.  Gibbs was a big 130 lber.  not taking nothing away from him, he was a great wrestler and beat another great wrestler.

[plee 0]

I also was bias. 

Sorry pee, but I was rooting for Gibbs also.

Great kid, and had a bum shoulder in the finals. (That is if my memory is correct, remember us old guys sometimes have memory loss) :-o

Ahhhhh Yes, the OLD I had a bum shoulder excuse.....a classic...if you lose, it was because you dislocated your shoulder....if you win, you are a legend!!  ;-)  I think Gibbs was just fine in the finals.  I can't take anything away from either of them.  It ended up being a great match, it just didn't have the end result I was hoping for.

Grappler-of-old, can't believe you broke ranks and rooted against a N. Ky guy. 

[grappler-of-old 44]

Man how could you not root for a kid who's mother was into the matches so much?  I can still hear her "C'mon Rooooy" in that Southern drawl.  :-D

Plus Tommy beat up on one of my boys the year before.  :x

All kidding aside, Tommy and Roy were both great kids.  I just wanted Roy to finally get a title. Tommy already had 2.  To bad they had to be in the same wt. class.

[plee 0]

Man how could you not root for a kid who's mother was into the matches so much?  I can still hear her "C'mon Rooooy" in that Southern drawl.  :-D

Plus Tommy beat up on one of my boys the year before.  :x

All kidding aside, Tommy and Roy were both great kids.  I just wanted Roy to finally get a title. Tommy already had 2.  To bad they had to be in the same wt. class.

yes, very true....i can't feel too sorry for tommy after he won it twice.

[Mathound 4]

Soooo, yes, I'm glad we are all on agreement that an automatic out of bounds point is a bad idea.

:evil:

[eville dad 17]

hang on now mathound, thats a might big "we" in your last post!

I happened to like it and would be in favor of at least trying it at the high school level to see how it works out.

In all honesty until you see a few matches using the rule you just cant appreciate how it helps the integrity of the match by making the wrestlers maintain an honest effort to work hard for points and reduces stalling and going out of bounds to stop the clock and to avoid giving up points. I really think once you saw it in action you would like it too. Most coaches I talked to at the tournaments this summer liked the rule.

I respect everyones opinion pro or con and if used on a trial basis I may not like it for HS folkstyle afterall,  but I would be voting "yes" for at least giving it a try.

[kdsmith27 14]

I've been holding my comments about this subject, But I agree with Eville dad, I also Refereed over the summer with the new rules. In Freestyle you had very little OOB calls. They stayed to the center. Now greco was a different story. Many matches were decided by going OOB. I think it just makes a wrestler more aware of where he is on the mat.

[grappler-of-old 44]

Another negative I can see is some teams taking huge advantages of this rule. 

Woodford (Whom in my opinion already plays the edge of the mat) would take full advantage of this rule and continue to play the edge, just come up with a technique of sending their opponent OOB. I would also think that Wayne would also take advantage of this.  This may sound like I'm ragging on these teams but it is actually a complement.  There coaching staff will take this rule break it down and come up with ways to use it in their favor.

Think of this 10 seconds left in the match up by 2 points.  Go to the edge of the match allow your opponent to charge you.  You either gain another point by using his momentum or you step OOB and give him 1 point.  Kinda like locking hands when your up by 2 with 3-5 seconds left on the clock.

What is next? slip throws?

[plee 0]

I've been holding my comments about this subject, But I agree with Eville dad, I also Refereed over the summer with the new rules. In Freestyle you had very little OOB calls. They stayed to the center. Now greco was a different story. Many matches were decided by going OOB. I think it just makes a wrestler more aware of where he is on the mat.

Eville Dad & kdsmith27....EXCELLENT points.  kdsmith, that's exactly what I think would happen if they put this in place in h.s.  Wrestlers would avoid the out of bounds lines.  They would wrestle in the center.  I'd be interested in seeing how it would work.

I think of this debate as if let's say there was not a "locking hands rule" currently.  If someone came out and said, you shouldn't be able to lock hands....i think the top guy should be penalized 1 point for that.  Of course there would be some resistance.....people would bring up how bad it would be if you lost a state finals by that.  Well, wrestlers rarely lock hands because...it's against the rules.  Wrestlers & coaches will adapt.  The natural adaptation in my mind would be to stay in the center of the mat when on your feet.

[eville dad 17]

Grappler,

I understand your comments but isnt that what wrestling is about learning to overcome your oppenent and think of how exciting those last 10 seconds will be when both wrestlers are scrambling to score or not give up points. But honestly I dont remember that it was much of an issue in the last seconds of a match because the kids quickly learned not to get beat by it.

Interesting discussion, if you want to see the rule in action I think it will be utilized in the Real Pro Wrestling season.

[grappler-of-old 44]

Evile:

It was used in Real Pro wrestlings 1st season.

I wasn't sure I liked it then.

[Mathound 4]

I was trying to get it back on topic.  :roll: Glad to see it worked.

Now... I don't think the problem here is the fact that people are not wrestling in the middle of the mat. The problem is, wrestlers aren't given enough space on the edge and its a bad habit of high school wrestlers not to fight the takedown but work out of bounds (and this is really easy to hide and do in high school).

I like the college rule... you're in bounds until no single body part is in the circle. You get more fluid motion. You can't flee that mat. You'll be called for even thinking about it. Referee's need to be strict on this and coaches need to educate their wrestlers in these situations. Even in a defensive position you need to attack and fight the takedown and not just turn away out of bounds. This should cost you a point... You don't see this type of reaction in college wrestling. The fact that you cannot simply get two feet out of bounds for a restart in college is a huge difference...

Then again, I'm still yet to see it...

[arrow77 0]

I like the push-out rule.....And I'll admit that we have in the past and still do teach our wrestlers to work the edge...What I like best about the rule is .....the aggressive wrestler is given more opportunities to score points....From our stand-point the rule has worked in our guys favor alot more than it has worked against us......as for having it used in folkstyle I'm neither for or against it right now....I feel if stalling was called more consistently you really don't need the push-out rule.....Just my humble opinion....

[CCFullerHWT 1]

i would love this as a rule i hate when guys stall up on me