Youth Holiday Classic - 12/16/12

[Submit only to Jesus 0]

Youth Holiday Classic

December 16th

Johnson Central High School - Paintsville, KY

Ages 4-15

$15 per wrestler

See attached flyer and registration form for more info

Youth.Holiday.Classic1.doc

[J.W. 21]

I will post tonight on the Kentucky Youth Wrestling Facebook page. Glad to see a tournament that will actually make kids weigh in and wrestle their true weigth. Maybe this can spread someday across the state. Wait, wait, wait.....Here come the haters that think letting kids and coaches lie about weight is actually growing the sport of wrestling.

[Chris Duke 284]

This is the way it should be. Maybe our state tournament will start doing this.

[Bluesdad 73]

Also you can call or email me for more information. Phone # 606-297-8480. email: genefletcher79@yahoo.com. All come out and hit this tourney. Expecting kids from WV and OH as well. Should be a good tourney.

[Submit only to Jesus 0]

Had to modify the first post. Starting times were wrong.

Sorry for any inconvenience.

The weigh-ins will be from 12-1

[VIW 0]

I will post tonight on the Kentucky Youth Wrestling Facebook page. Glad to see a tournament that will actually make kids weigh in and wrestle their true weigth. Maybe this can spread someday across the state. Wait, wait, wait.....Here come the haters that think letting kids and coaches lie about weight is actually growing the sport of wrestling.

hopefully it can spread across the state

[Bluesdad 73]

I would love for the state tournament to be ran like WV tourney. 16 man bracket with the top 8 seeded. Do weigh class like the TOC classes. 3lb increments. I think our state tourney is watered down a bit right now. I know last year they ran out of the medals with the wrestle on them and had to give out other medals that was not up to par for a state tourney. My son was very disappointed after he won state and got that terrible medal.

[raidercoach 51]

I will post tonight on the Kentucky Youth Wrestling Facebook page. Glad to see a tournament that will actually make kids weigh in and wrestle their true weigth. Maybe this can spread someday across the state. Wait, wait, wait.....Here come the haters that think letting kids and coaches lie about weight is actually growing the sport of wrestling.

That's a pretty bold accusation. What evidence do you have where a coach lied about a weigh in?

[J.W. 21]

That's a pretty bold accusation. What evidence do you have where a coach lied about a weigh in?

Last year at a tournament when I challenged a kid and he was 15 pounds over the weight he stated. Stood on the scales and there it was, and then they admitted - because the facts were there. Ryle Raider tournament DQ'd a kid today because of a challenge and overweight - could have been prevented with a scale. Why do you think tournaments that run a Madison Weight System have a challenge rule? The same reason that McDonalds has a warning on the cup that the coffee is hot. because there are people out there that don't use common sense and do the right thing.

Are you really going to say that it does not happen? I guess Bonds, Clemens, and Sosa were innocent. No athlete used steroids. Ohio State and USC should not have had sanctions, because nobody cheats when given an opportunity. Not a bold statement, a fact that it happens and the only reason for not weighing kids in, even if using a 10% rule is to protect those that want the ability to cheat.

Tournament today at Raider Youth, which stated 10% rule is in effect had a weight class that was 43 to 49. Break out your calculator boys and girls, but that is 15%. We can't even run a tournament in this state where we follow our own rules.

Again - protect your beliefs, but open your mind and see the facts. Nobody claimed it was you, but don't turn a blind eye on the fact that it happens. But are you one of the haters that I think not doing weigh-ins is actually growing the sport - not weight classes, but doing weigh-ins?

[raidercoach 51]

Last year at a tournament when I challenged a kid and he was 15 pounds over the weight he stated. Stood on the scales and there it was, and then they admitted - because the facts were there. Ryle Raider tournament DQ'd a kid today because of a challenge and overweight - could have been prevented with a scale. Why do you think tournaments that run a Madison Weight System have a challenge rule? The same reason that McDonalds has a warning on the cup that the coffee is hot. because there are people out there that don't use common sense and do the right thing.

Are you really going to say that it does not happen? I guess Bonds, Clemens, and Sosa were innocent. No athlete used steroids. Ohio State and USC should not have had sanctions, because nobody cheats when given an opportunity. Not a bold statement, a fact that it happens and the only reason for not weighing kids in, even if using a 10% rule is to protect those that want the ability to cheat.

Tournament today at Raider Youth, which stated 10% rule is in effect had a weight class that was 43 to 49. Break out your calculator boys and girls, but that is 15%. We can't even run a tournament in this state where we follow our own rules.

Again - protect your beliefs, but open your mind and see the facts. Nobody claimed it was you, but don't turn a blind eye on the fact that it happens. But are you one of the haters that I think not doing weigh-ins is actually growing the sport - not weight classes, but doing weigh-ins?

Show me where I said it didn't happen. I simply asked you to provide some evidence when you make such a claim on a public forum. I KNOW this happens and I think its ridiculous. However, I will remind you that this doesn't just happen in Kentucky or just at the youth level. I don't know if they still do it this way or not, but there are many college tournaments where weigh-ins were sent in and done at your school, by your coach. I assure you that there were many "inaccuracies".

[MLee 68]

JW, you should have all the facts before you start slinging mud about our tournament. The LONE bracket that was outside the 10% rule (out of 70 brackets) was fixed. By the way, the 43 lber, was my wrestler and his parents had no problem w/ him staying, but I moved him anyways.

And yes, we did have a challenge from a parent. The kid weight 1.6 lbs heavier than the weight they submitted (w/ a singlet, socks, and knee pads on) which put him w/in 10% of the wrestler challenging him..but outside the lowest kid in his weight class. To avoid confrontation, I moved him out of the bracket and gave him a few exhibitions.

There are too many reasons why at the youth level we use the 10% rule. This has been discussed over and over and over and..... Here is some common sense, if you don't like it, don't attend tournaments that use that format.

[J.W. 21]

MLEE - I enjoyed your tournament and posted a positive note about it on the Kentucky Youth Wrestling Forum. I think you ran a good tournament.

A forum where opinions are allowed and should be expressed.

I don't think the 10% rule is bad if it is controlled. I have been to many madison weight system tournaments all over the country and they work well, they just have the kids weigh in when they get there. There are many reasons for this also - it ensures the weights are correct, it ensures that there are not any brackets with scratches (because every kid there checked in at the scale).

You can and have given good debate about weight classes and weight loss, I still hold my opinion, but you can't give any good reason for not weighing kids in at a tournament except it is easier on the tournament director.

Again - here on the Forum - your tournament ran well and I was glad that I attended. No mud slung as you verified what I posted by saying there was a kid outside of the 10% and there was a 15% bracket instead of 10%.

(And yes we had this same debate last year that got you upset). You will still hold and post your opinions and I will hold and post mine. Nothing personal, just business.

[J.W. 21]

Show me where I said it didn't happen. I simply asked you to provide some evidence when you make such a claim on a public forum. I KNOW this happens and I think its ridiculous. However, I will remind you that this doesn't just happen in Kentucky or just at the youth level. I don't know if they still do it this way or not, but there are many college tournaments where weigh-ins were sent in and done at your school, by your coach. I assure you that there were many "inaccuracies".

If you KNOW it happens and you think it is ridculous - help make it better instead of supporting the "Its the way we've always done it" attitude. Thanks for the reminder - but Kentucky is what you and I and the other coaches that care can influence and try to improve on - not the CYWL or whereever else you want to point to. I feel pretty positive that College Wrestling has weigh-ins on site, maybe intramural teams let you send it weights, but the Big 10 D1 has not done satellite weigh-ins, Cael Sanderson is not going to take Terry Brands word on it when it comes down to a Big 10 Championship, and they won't have a 10% rule next olympics.

Guys this was way too easy... I said wait, wait, wait, here comes the haters and the same two people as always are posting right away. Anyways, this got side tracked way too easy - this forum is about the Youth Holiday Classic.

[raidercoach 51]

JW,

I wrestled D1 and attended many early season tournaments where we did not weigh in on site. These tournaments were represented by almost every major conference in D1 including the Big 10. That was 10 years ago and things may have changed, but it was common then.

There is a MAJOR benefit to not having weigh ins the day of a tournament other than helping the tournament director that you are overlooking: time. Nothing turns families off from our sport more than having to spend all day at a tournament to watch their kid go two and out. We attend a few tournaments where the on-site weigh ins are done and there are always way more problems with brackets and the tournament finishes hours later. You can counter this by just having smaller tournaments, but that limits the competition and the fund raising opportunities of the tournament.

We had over 550 kids wrestle yesterday with very little problems with the brackets, great competition, finished on time, and were able to raise money for our program. It was an overwhelming success. You think we should change that formula because of a couple of minor issues? I suggest you set up and run a tournament your way and prove to the rest of us that what we're doing doesn't work.

It's easy to come on here and critique every little issue you have, you are pretty good at that, it's much harder to actually do it.

[raidercoach 51]

If you KNOW it happens and you think it is ridculous - help make it better instead of supporting the "Its the way we've always done it" attitude. Thanks for the reminder - but Kentucky is what you and I and the other coaches that care can influence and try to improve on - not the CYWL or whereever else you want to point to. I feel pretty positive that College Wrestling has weigh-ins on site, maybe intramural teams let you send it weights, but the Big 10 D1 has not done satellite weigh-ins, Cael Sanderson is not going to take Terry Brands word on it when it comes down to a Big 10 Championship, and they won't have a 10% rule next olympics.

Guys this was way too easy... I said wait, wait, wait, here comes the haters and the same two people as always are posting right away. Anyways, this got side tracked way too easy - this forum is about the Youth Holiday Classic.

"Haters"? Go look in a mirror. You are the only one on here criticizing...lol. When we defend ourselves you claim we are haters and "I should be able to post an opinion". All I see from you is "hating".

[raidercoach 51]

"Haters"? Go look in a mirror. You are the only one on here criticizing...lol. When we defend ourselves you claim we are haters and "I should be able to post an opinion". All I see from you is "hating". The people you are talking to have ran tournaments your way and prefer to run them differently. As you say, we just have a difference of opinion and its just business.

[Ranger123 43]

Raider - please come up with another example other than college coaches knowingly sending in inaccuracies. I think we can all agree this is not something we want our coaches to emulate or the example we want to set for our kids. Just because there were only a few visible issues doesn't mean others didn't exist. Most coaches just show up and go with the flow and won't cause any waves or challenge anything. Well at least until they step in the corner. Having a kid step on the scale as they check in is pretty simple. And I just attended an event run by jw last month. Good tournament. And we weighed in when we got there.

[raidercoach 51]

Raider - please come up with another example other than college coaches knowingly sending in inaccuracies. I think we can all agree this is not something we want our coaches to emulate or the example we want to set for our kids. Just because there were only a few visible issues doesn't mean others didn't exist. Most coaches just show up and go with the flow and won't cause any waves or challenge anything. Well at least until they step in the corner. Having a kid step on the scale as they check in is pretty simple. And I just attended an event run by jw last month. Good tournament. And we weighed in when we got there.

Come up with another example of what? I'm not saying we should never weigh in. I wish we could trust all the teams 100% of the time, but I know we can't which I previously stated. We had 550 kids wrestle yesterday, started at 9:00 and finished at 4:30 with very little issues. That's hard to do (not impossible) with weigh ins. If you can do it, go for it. If you don't like the way we run our tournament, don't show up. It's not a qualifying event, so you don't have to come. However, it's a great tournament with great competition and the feedback we always get is overwhelmingly positive.

[raidercoach 51]

Raider - please come up with another example other than college coaches knowingly sending in inaccuracies. I think we can all agree this is not something we want our coaches to emulate or the example we want to set for our kids. Just because there were only a few visible issues doesn't mean others didn't exist. Most coaches just show up and go with the flow and won't cause any waves or challenge anything. Well at least until they step in the corner. Having a kid step on the scale as they check in is pretty simple. And I just attended an event run by jw last month. Good tournament. And we weighed in when we got there.

We did not attend JW's tournament, but if he was able to put on a tournament with 550 kids, with weigh ins, weight classes, have it run smoothly with good distribution of participants per weight, and have it done by 4:30, then he has my applause.

[Ranger123 43]

I didn't show up. No big deal. You used the college example as some sort of justification for not weighing in at the event. As usual you just want to provide rude comments whenever someone suggests there might be a better way to do something. To jw credit he constantly asked for feedback at his event and wants to see it continue to improve and acknowledges that others just might have something of value to say.

[raidercoach 51]

I didn't show up. No big deal. You used the college example as some sort of justification for not weighing in at the event. As usual you just want to provide rude comments whenever someone suggests there might be a better way to do something. To jw credit he constantly asked for feedback at his event and wants to see it continue to improve and acknowledges that others just might have something of value to say.

Poobah is back. Where was I rude? JW attacked members of this state that don't do things HIS way first. Then he called those who disagree with him "haters" before I said a word. Then he defended his comments by saying this is a public forum and he's entitled to his opinion....I actually agree with that! I NEVER justified coaches or wrestlers cheating during satellite weigh ins. I hate when people do it and acknowledged I know it goes on. I only brought up that it happens in college and in other states because JW acted as if this is only a problem in our state.

You sure do have it out for me Ranger. Maybe, you are still bitter over me beating you at state when I was an eighth grader and you were a junior. Either way, I could care less about what you or JW think about the way we run our program or tournaments.

[IWIN 49]

On every level of wrestling, except youth, we weigh in, and have weight classes. Seems a little silly that we wouldn't hold our youth to the same standard. What's next? The YMCA method of no losers, we are all winners, everyone gets a trophy. Horse crap!

[raidercoach 51]

On every level of wrestling, except youth, we weigh in, and have weight classes. Seems a little silly that we wouldn't hold our youth to the same standard. What's next? The YMCA method of no losers, we are all winners, everyone gets a trophy. Horse crap!

We do weigh in for every tournament. We just do it a day or two before at our practice. The weights are then sent to the tournament directors. We are very accurate, some others aren't.

[MLee 68]

Thanks JW, and sorry if I misunderstood your comment. I'm glad you guys made it up.

Satellite weigh ins are flawed. Variances in different scales, fudged weights, etc. all can contribute to discrepancies. We only do it for logistic reasons. There is no way I'm weighing in over 500 kids THEN generating 70+ brackets the day of a one day tournament. Too stressful!

With that said, there are a few CYW tournaments that do weigh in the day of, which tends to discourage cheating. It would be pretty embarrassing to be the coach who had kids wrestling 70 lbs all year show up at 75+.

Also, the term "true weight" is being tossed around here. I'd argue the 10% rule promotes kids to wrestle their natural weight more so than set weight classes. I have documented evidence of this. Just look no further than the weights of those who wrestle both MS and Youth. I've seen 5 lb swings from kids weights from MS tournaments to Youth State tournament. There is only one explanation for this, weight cutting. If a kid drops 5 lbs to make a set weight class, is he wrestling his true weight?

[IWIN 49]

I appreciate the fact that no matter what side of the fence anyone is on, the idea of promoting the growth of the sport is the main agenda. Kentucky has grown leaps and bounds since my day of competing (although I think my generation had a little harder work ethic at times). Lol! Just a little joke parents, don't string me up. Anyway, I believe we all want what is best for the sport, and each side will have to give a little. These are growing pains. These are good problems to have. I believe that before long, we will have to make the youth regional tournament a true qualifying tournament for State. At some point it will just get to big and disorganized for us to continue the same old format. Once again, if we work together, we will achieve our goal of growing the greatest of all sports....WRESTLING!!