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Ranger123

Kentuckywrestling.com P4P Rankings - July 21

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I have found there are always those who help those kids who need it IF that kid is going the extra mile on his own .

Theres more than one way to excell theres always more a kid can do on his own .

The poor wo is me attitude breeds failure the im going to win no matter what or whatvi have to work with Breeds success .

Quit crying and start working and winning .I see kids run with rocks sprint hills do hundreds of standups a day by themselves .Spend hundreds of hrs in gyms because that is the only way to win .

If there is a will there is a way at least to reach levels considered successful .

Most if us would help any kid im any way we could .Much thanks to all those that do .

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I have found there are always those who help those kids who need it IF that kid is going the extra mile on his own .

Theres more than one way to excell theres always more a kid can do on his own .

The poor wo is me attitude breeds failure the im going to win no matter what or whatvi have to work with Breeds success .

Quit crying and start working and winning .I see kids run with rocks sprint hills do hundreds of standups a day by themselves .Spend hundreds of hrs in gyms because that is the only way to win .

If there is a will there is a way at least to reach levels considered successful .

Most if us would help any kid im any way we could .Much thanks to all those that do .

I understand that coming from a poor home life doesn't mean you can't succeed and win but it makes the task 10x harder. That is the point I am trying to make. Many people on this forum stress the importance of showing up at big events like Super 32 and Fargo but that's easier said than done. Having to fundraise every time you want to attend something can be mentally and physically exhausting for a teenager. Tyr, your sons have had great success but how many camps, clubs, tournaments have they attended over the years? They also have the advantage of having you as a father. A father who cares as much as you and shows them constant support is an awesome tool to have. Would your boys be as great without you or all the additional camps and clubs? Maybe... Maybe not? You should be very proud of them and their accomplishments.

Being 14-18 years old and working after school to help support the family, pay rent, and buy food takes away from a lot of training time. Than the driving factor can also hurt progression. Finding a ride to and from isn't always easy. I know teams who take city buses together but the routes only go so far.

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Thats all true but nothing is as dangerous as a deafeatist attittude and nothing is as good for winning as an attitude of I CAN.

My sons have had a ton if coaching training and camps clubs and whatever .

When we came back To Ky people expected them to fail maybe they did at times but it had to do with other issues as well .

Everyone cannot have a huge win record or do tons of tourneys for various reasons .like Super 32 no football player can make it making it ovetated anyway but thats my point.

I just saw a kid who was far removed from two different syles who has absoluty no one to push him in a room although he does have a room with great coaches .He took it on himself to hit other aspects if the sport training in the gym cardio running Bleachers .etc there are ither ways to win .

He did not listen to the many who said he couldnt he listened the few and himself who said he could ,Now He DID .

I know very little kids that were as poor as me when I was growing up but I achieved my goals on my own and anyone can if they want it bad enough .

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anyone can if they want it bad enough .

That hits the nail on the head.  If you want it bad enough. 

 

Where does that mentality come from?  Very few have that attitude by themselves.  It was tought to them by thier parent/guardian.  When sports or at least the sport of wrestling is far far down that list of importance it is hard to get those individuals to "want it bad enough".  It makes it even harder when that parent/guardian does not attend or even want that individual to wrestle.  How many kids do you see that are successful that do NOT have their parents/guardian or even a sibling attend every meet or at least the majority of them?  Heck I've seen more than my share of wrestlers that NEVER had thier parents see them wrestle.   

 

My point and I think Wtbgg's is that success does not have to be guaged just by being the best or one of the best. It can be guaged by other accomplishments as well.  It's not a defeatist attitude when you celebrate a kid just qualifying for the state touney or making it thier goal. 

 

Not everyone has supporters like yourself that give up so much to see their kids succeed in a sport.  That is the true makup of a great program is getting parents involved and supporting the team or at least their own kids. 

 

Once again thanks to all that open up and allow some of those kids with less support into your supporting world.  Even a little bit of support for many of those kids go a long way. 

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Again not necessarily true I push and support and teach what little I know some kids /most do not have that but I was a sta te Champ in a couple sports and never even had a ride to train or practice and it was yr round at least five days a week ,lol I walked Miles back and forth every day to train and had a father who didnt care squat about sports whatsoever .Kids need to know what it takes and that it can be done they do not need excuses and more reasons for doubt or Grown ups making those excuses for them .I am legally handicapped my arm only moves about 35 degrees at the elbow and my shoulders both need replaced and have less than 60 percent movement and I can out train most HS kids the only person who can stop someone is themselves its just patience and time and guts and confidence and Will and Desire .All it takes is one person who a kid believes in to say YOU can do it and no one believes a Doubter .Many at the top like to make those not there think its unatainable but its not money time or even coaches do not make champions all the time there are anomolies that say I WILL WIN no matter what or who likes it or where im from .My whole

life I heard you cannot beat people from over there and my whole life I stomped them

So did my Sons .So can anyone else who says I will.

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I have to agree with you that Kentucky is an odd state when it comes to ranking people based on records and accomplishments. This is a tough job and I give anyone who tries credit. I think the reason it's difficult is the diversity in the schedules of teams in this state. There are only a handful of teams that make an effort to travel and find tougher competition. I understand that it's easier for regions on the borders like Northern KY to attend bigger tournaments simply due to location. Teams in cities such as Louisville and Lexington have to drive longer which means more funds and time. I have noticed over the years the bigger private schools such as St. X, Trinity have been working to toughen up their schedule. Within the last couple years more public schools such as Moore, Walton Verona and Ryle have made an effort to challenge themselves by attending multiple Ohio and Indiana tournaments. It's no secret that the teams making this effort are showing the most growth in the state. Teams with tougher schedules often bring kids into the state tournament with double digit losses while another wrestler may by 42-3 but hasn't wrestled nearly anyone tough. That's why rankings are tough to do.

Also, many students that attend these bigger schools have the parietal support and $ to travel to camps and off season tournaments such as Fargo. That support goes along way when it comes to improving in the off season. Each year the cost goes up which hinders the development of less privileged kids.

I have to disagree that bigger schools have an advantage.  I know that Walton Verona and Union County are very small schools in comparison to some of the large schools in the state.  I don't think that funding is an excuse for not working to accomplish goals in what ever sport kids participate in.  Tyr made a good point that if a kid wants it bad enough he can make it happen.

 

Just because a kid goes to 10 camps a year doesn't mean he has an advantage or is going to be better than everyone else.  I see kids all the time that go to camps all over and don't seem to progress.  They end up just going through the motions on the mat.  Then the parent or kid can talk about all the places they have been.

 

There is no substitute for hard work and determination.  I think it is about instilling values and beliefs in kids to succeed.  Also surrounding the kids with other kids who have the same goals and work ethic.  We have been fortunate enough to be around other kids and parents who are willing to work together to put these kids in the best position to grow.  We have a small facility to train in that was made possible with the work and help of others.  From fund raising, donations, etc.  

 

I am not going to disagree that if you took that same determined kids and had a endless supply of funding you could do more.  I just think that you work with what you have and be grateful for the opportunities.  There are so many kids, parents, and coaches that are willing to help kids no matter what team or school a family is a part of. 

 

The last point would be getting kids to believe in themselves.  Not making excuses but setting realistic goals.  This could be as simple as a weight they want to lift, a distance they want to run, a tournament they want to win, or even another wrestler they want to beat.  Then reminding them of their goals and helping them obtain them.  Beating a kid down and telling him he can't do that or he will never beat that kid is wrong.  instead getting them to believe that anything is possible if they are willing to work.  If parents and coaches don't believe, how will the kid ever believe?

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I think what I am trying to say is that there are some kids coming from smaller programs that have the same drive as the top kids in the state but due to lack of resources don't get the same experience and opportunities as the top kids. For example, funding for hotels and travel to bigger tournaments is something the wrestler can't control.   He is forced to wrestle the schedule his school approves.  Why are all the top teams at the bigger tournaments like Ryle, and Dragon? Then look at the out of state tournaments in Cincinnati and Dayton only a few KY schools attend. Why? Because they can afford to travel and attend. Some of the smaller programs ask to attend these tournaments but their A.D. or principal doesn't approve the event due to lack of funds. Just look at the state tournaments and see which schools show up in nice buses with team coolers then which ones pile into cars with a few parents with no team supplies.  You wanna tell me Union County having the funds to bus all those fans to the arena doesn't motivate their wrestlers?  This is life, some families got it...some don't, but to say its not an advantage is crazy.  To agree with bulldog success is judged differently with each program and individual. Some wrestlers may reach their goals and overcome these obstacles but may not be standing on the podium in late February.  The climb to the top is much harder if you don't have parent support and resources. Especially in the sport like wrestling where the more rooms your in wrestling different people the sharper your skills get.  Tyr, you have been on this forum for years bragging about how you trained and pushed your kids every step of the way.  I applauded your efforts and you have done a tremendous job with your boys but don't you think you have been their strongest asset? They have had constant support and motivation from you on their way to top. With that support comes rides, money, training help, an understanding of weight cutting, etc. That knowledge can't be substituted regardless how determined one is.  Can that knowledge be made up in different ways through hard work, yes it can. But that requires additional time and money resources many of these kids don't have.       

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Advantages yes But I have seen kids with the same accomplish basically nothing and others with far less do very well .

And thank you for the best of Compliments .

I think what Dutch and Myself are trying to say is it begins with attitude and positive Vibes/attitudes .My kids have advantages ,I did not I achieved nothing compared to them but I did Achieve all my goals as a youth .

My sons came home one day and said we want to wrestler they had the initial drive I simply did all I could to help them and made sure they knew they could beat anyone or be as good or better than anyone even someone who was from a place that was known for Champs and it was that positive attitude that led them to success and actually do things no other youths from their area ever did in the sport I said you can beat everyone up north if you work harder ,they did, I said you can be the first ever sixth grade district champ they bothh were .

I said you can do both state tournaments youth and jr high on the same week and do well and Steph did still the only kid in ohio history to accomplish that .

I never let them listen nor did I ever listen to those who knocked or doubted me as a coach trainer or whatever for lack of wrestling experience .

Dutch is right there are people who will help any kid they see working their butt of and heres a secret once a kid actually ups his game Everyone wants to help him as long as hes a good kid its a snowball effect .

Not beating a dead horse but if Austin listened to almost everyone he would not have pulled of what I consider the most insane run ever this summer I doubt there was more than a few people who would have guessed he would go to regionals and come back to KY with 2 ows or go on to Fargo and be the only Kid to Double in his class .That was 3 x ky champ with tons of experience yet still far removed from those styles he believed .Nothing is stronger than the mind and there is more than one road to the top you do not have to follow the beaten path .

I could take some of the poor kids with desire and work with them for a week and give them tools that would launch them far ahead of many who have far more advantages than them IF they believed and would not listen to Doubters .Negativity is a poison Positivity combined with intense work and desire cannot be bought or even instilled in some kids .

In truth having a brother close to your age who wrestles as well is the biggest advantage in The sport of wrestling .Steibers Palmers Brands Coopers And yes the Dixons from Okl Lampes .Other than that I think its all up to the undividual .

sometimes the struggle to overcome disadvantages is The greatest advantage Survival of the fittest what does not kill you makes you stronger .As my sons pinned some of the fanciest well trained most feared youth wrestlers in seconds in and around the sixth grade in national tournaments and stunned people in Cincy it all became clear you outwork someone and you can beat them even if your work is considered crude or underated by most .

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I could take some of the poor kids with desire and work with them for a week and give them tools that would launch them far ahead of many who have far more advantages than them

Thats the easy part.  Getting those kids to the point where they have the desire is the hard part.

 

I don't believe we are saying different things here. As coaches if your not possitive toward your athletes then you should not be coaching. 

 

Are there exceptions to the rule of course there are.  And those exceptions are usually the best of the best.  When  you have a kid for 6 months a year for  an average of 3 hours a day teaching desire is very difficult.  Can it be done?  Of coarse it can.  Can it be done with every kid?  No.  But you try and try and try again to instill that desire and positive attitude.  You make goals. If that goal is reached then you make a higher goal. 

 

I know what you mean by setting to low a goal.  When asked what my goal was as a 2nd year wrestler I said "to be a state champion, and I would be satisfied with nothing less than placing top 6 in the state. (They only placed top 6 in my day).  I was told by a newpaper reporter who was interviewing the team. "thats probably to high of a goal why don't I put you want to qualify for state".  Being 14 years old I said "I know I'm going to state, but you can put that down if you want".  I lost in the semi's and placed 4th that year, and when I next saw the reporter said I told you that was not a high enough goal.  But that was me and I have always been hard headed and extremely competitive.  I never reached my goal but I know that I pushed myself to try and accomplish it.  As a coach you try to get that same fire in your wrestlers.

 

Dutch your comment about surrounding yourself with people with the same desire is exactly the point I was trying to make when I said the bigger programs (not schools) have an advantage.  When you have a handfull of kids on your team and 1 or 2 of those 10 have a real desire then its hard to keep those with the fire in thier belly fueled.  But if you have 30 kids in the room and 25 of them have the fire then it is easy to fuel that fire.

 

I tried just keeping those only with the fire on the team.  That mean you only have 2-4 kids in the room.  Not only is that not good for the kids but it also does not help the program, the school fights every day to end the program.  I believe that if 1 kid wants to wrestle then you give that kid the opportunity, but schools don't always look at it like that.  In the past we had an AD with the same belief now there is a new AD and he just looks an numbers. 

 

I didn't make the initial comment to make excusses.  I made it to thank those who help the kids who try hard but don't always succeed on the big stage for whatever reason it may be.  Many people don't realize that when someone from another team just acknoledges a kid who is trying, goes a long long way with that kid.  It shows them that their hard work has not gone un-noticed by those outside his team.  He takes that back with him and helps fuel the fire and in many cases pushes that kid to be more successful. 

 

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I came from a large school with a large program. However, most see a big school and think big funding. That we had the complete backing of the school. We were allowed to have one home event each year. We had to ride some POS bus up to Ohio and Indiana tournaments where the wrestlers had to pay entrance fees and had to make the drives back home at 2-3 am. There was not some big hotel we all stayed in and we didn't have some grayhound bus as most of you imagine it. Our "big school" had about as much funding as most of the "small programs". We did not even have our own room. We maintained our room each and every day but most of the time we had to waste 30-45 minutes waiting for other teams to get out. As for the number of kids in the room, I always preferred to have just a handful of kids in our room. As much as it may sound negative, size of program is not nearly as important as say coaching or motivation of the kids. Whether you choose to believe my first hand accounts, the success of a program does not require thousands of dollars of funding. It require kids who are willing to push themselves further than other kids. That is why you have several teams in KY who are always in the top 10. The kids have grown up knowing hard work or the have grown up knowing how to do just enough. That is why you have small teams and programs like Union, WV etc who are always beating big programs and that is why you see big programs who have always been top level maintaining the traditions of past years.

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I agree for the most part except WV I dont think they have "Always "beaten big programs I think they have some passionate people who in the last few yrs are creating a good team but im not sure of history completely .

As for the bus stuff I think its a sports thing If a Basketball team made it to state Finals they have parades pep rallies players get the treatment a team makes it to state in Wrestling and its ohh good job boys .kind of a joke considering .Well I take it back a basketball team gets more props for making first round of playoffs than a wrestling team does for winning state .Fact

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