Sign in to follow this  
Haystack

SEED The State Tournament!!!!

Recommended Posts

How can put into works seeding the state tournament. Is there any process to petition the KHSAA or propose it when planning tournaments in the future. This has to change. There were only 3-4 competitive finals matches , Primarily because the real state finals matches are wrestled in the semis or even the quarterfinals. I mean who enjoys watching major after major in the final matches ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Seeding the state tournament will take too long. Heck, seeding some of the region tournaments -- at least before this year -- seemed to take forever.

 

And who would oversee it?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When I wrestled back in the day in South Carolina, Our tournaments were seeded.  What they did was wrestle regions, then the state was divided in half.  We had a upper state tournament and a lower state tournament.  The top 4 from each tournament wrestled at the state tournament.  The was only a 8 man bracket, and was a one day event.  They seeded by where you finished.  I know this probably is unrealistic in kentucky, but thats how it was in SC.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd b surprised if the tournament was ever seeded other than the way there doing it now. The 1-4s and 2-3s out of each region. I can't think of any other sport that is in Kentucky. If there is .. Then there could be a possibility.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Seed returning placers is the only option

How would that work? What happens when a returning placer who finishes fourth at region will get seeded higher than a region champ? That's not the answer at all.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The reason it will not be seeded is that it most likely will open up a can of worms. As soon as you seed the wrestling tournament, the boys basketball coaches at the powers such as Ballard and Scott County will demand the KHSAA seed the sweet sixteen. Then if you seed the boys, you have to seed the girls, then another sport wants their tournament seeded. What gives? Personally, I think they all should be seeded. I just don't know if the man power and logistics exist to do so.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Rumbler it isn't seeding if you separate previous state medalists.

 

Personally, I think it is a load of crap for arguing to seed the state tournament. If you are the best then you will have to beat the best. Period. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The only way this will work with very little effort is if you seed the 8 champions from each region. You keep the same rule now that says the #2 from each region goes to the opposite side of that regions winner. The exact locations of the 2-4 seeds will be completed as is. (Random Draw). This will give the brackets balance at the top and almost always ensure the biggest matches happen in the finals.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The only way this will work with very little effort is if you seed the 8 champions from each region. You keep the same rule now that says the #2 from each region goes to the opposite side of that regions winner. The exact locations of the 2-4 seeds will be completed as is. (Random Draw). This will give the brackets balance at the top and almost always ensure the biggest matches happen in the finals.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Rumbler is on to something, I know of one weight class particularly that had six of the top 8 all from be side of the bracket. That means someone had an easy day!!! That's a ridiculous. One side battles it out and the other cruises into the finals. Fix this Kentucky!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The only way this will work with very little effort is if you seed the 8 champions from each region. You keep the same rule now that says the #2 from each region goes to the opposite side of that regions winner. The exact locations of the 2-4 seeds will be completed as is. (Random Draw). This will give the brackets balance at the top and almost always ensure the biggest matches happen in the finals.

Exactly rumbler. Been a proponent of this idea for years and years.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just a general question about the above proposal that Rumbler suggested and Ranger liked . What if they move up or down weight classes ? Doesn't at least 40% move from year to year that's just a guess on the percentage ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just a general question about the above proposal that Rumbler suggested and Ranger liked . What if they move up or down weight classes ? Doesn't at least 40% move from year to year that's just a guess on the percentage ?

My thought is to only seed the region champs from the current year. Then let the random draw fill in the 2-4 from each region.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

With track wrestling being used now for all duals and tournaments in HS Wrestling. The seeding will be done by head to head records posted on track wrestling.. I dont see a coaches meeting in the future doing this, except setting up the criteria to do it on the program.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My thought is to only seed the region champs from the current year. Then let the random draw fill in the 2-4 from each region.

Thanks that makes sense. It still leaves a lot up in the air though. I'll count them up to see how many region champions won the title but I know region 6-2 seeds won the 170 and the 182 state finals. I also believe that it wouldn't be an easy task to get all coaches to agree that their wrestler that just won their region is going to be seeded 8th lol.....I'm not a pessimist either I'm just trying to look at both sides.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

you know one of the reasons, especiallyin some brackets is that #2 in the state loss in their region. plus some #2 in regions are better than most #1s. there is no real solution. You have to give value to regional tournys and the only fair seeding would be to just seed regional champs. but their would still have the chance of unbalanced brackets or a Gus Adams vs Trae Blackwell or Bobby Bryant vs Troxell match in the second or quarterfinals

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is true. You could still have a situation like the Adams vs Blackwell scenario. However, you would clean up a lot of the other scenario's that happened. You wouldn't have the top 4 ranked guys at 120 all on the same side of the beacket. #2 Whalen and #3 Steiner would have been on the other side. You wouldn't have had Kory Polley and Tevon Clay wrestling in the quarter finals. I could go on and on. This proposal is not gonna make the bracket absolute perfect, it's gonna make it better. I think a lot better.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I still think you should have an additional tourny between the Region and the state tourney. (Call it Sectional)

 

It could be done in several ways. 

 

1.  Keep the 32 man bracket at state:   Each Sectional will combine 2 regions (Ie Region 1 and 2).  It will be an 8 man bracket 1V4, 2V3 in first round.  Place all 8 wrestlers. (All wrestlers still qualify for the state tourney)  Then at the state tourney have 1V8, 2V7, 3V6, 4V5.  It will help seperate some of the talent.  You will only have 4 Sectional winners (2 on each side of the bracket).

 

2. Make the state tourney a 28 man bracket. Each sectional will place the top 8 but only the top 7 go to state. Each Sectional winner will have a bye first round. 1VBye, 2V7, 3V6, 4V5. Only 4 sectional winners.

 

3. Make the state tourney a 24 man bracket.  Each sectional will place to the 8th place (only top 6 go to state). Then at the state tourney have 1VBye, 2VBye, 3V6, 4V5.  Only have 4 sectional winners.

 

4. Make the state tourney a 16 man bracket only the top 4 in Sectionals go to state. At state 1V4, 2V3. (like it use to be before the 32 man state bracket)

 

I personally like option 1 the best.  This solves many problems.  It allows for a 32 man bracket, it also helps with the lopsided brackets, and will make placing in the top 4 at Sectionals very important and the perception of making it to state seem more of an accomplishment.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I still think you should have an additional tourny between the Region and the state tourney. (Call it Sectional)

 

It could be done in several ways. 

 

1.  Keep the 32 man bracket at state:   Each Sectional will combine 2 regions (Ie Region 1 and 2).  It will be an 8 man bracket 1V4, 2V3 in first round.  Place all 8 wrestlers. (All wrestlers still qualify for the state tourney)  Then at the state tourney have 1V8, 2V7, 3V6, 4V5.  It will help seperate some of the talent.  You will only have 4 Sectional winners (2 on each side of the bracket).

 

I personally like option 1 the best.  This solves many problems.  It allows for a 32 man bracket, it also helps with the lopsided brackets, and will make placing in the top 4 at Sectionals very important and the perception of making it to state seem more of an accomplishment.

 

GOO - I like this option the best, as well. One question - do you push the season back a week (which I would perfer) or chop a week off? Starting the season earlier really puts the Football players at a disadvantage.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've been thinking about this again.

 

I have a better option.

 

1A:  

Regional tournament held 1st week

Placement to the top 6

Only top five move on to Sectionals (6th place would be the alternate)

 

Sectionals held 2nd Week.

You now have a 10 man bracket.  (The tournament can still be run in one day)

Placement to the top 10 (all place)

Only top 8 move on to state (That means 9th place would be alternate)

(Now there is a sense of accomplishment into qualifying to the state tourney.

 

State held 3rd Week. 

Still have a 32 man bracket.

Only 4 sectional winners. (this would reduce chances of to much talent on one side.)

You could then possibly be able to seed the sectional winners based on the previous years performance.

 

Any state champion gets top seed.

If multiple state champions then the one returning in the same wt.

If not returning same wt. The wrestler that was closest to the same wt last year.

If still not solved then random draw the seed between the 2 wrestslers then move to the next seed.

 

And state runner up gets top seed or next best seed.

etc. etc.

 

returning state placers only get seeded. All rest are random draw.

 

you only have to seed 4 wrestlers it could be done much easier.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this