Jo Momma

Fair enough. You're entitled to your opinion no matter if it's right or wrong. As for me, I've said all along I think the Carrs are great coaches and nobody, no matter how much people may hate Woodford, can deny that. Coach Walls and Coach Ervin from Union are right there with them as far as coaching duos go. Two state titles and a runner-up finish in the last three years says it all and with more Ervins on the way, they'll be in the state title hunt for years to come. With no disrespect to other coaches, my top 10 current coaches (in no particular order) would be Carrs, Walls/Ervin, Anderson, Ruschell, Bankemper, Canter, Matney, Smith (North Hardin), McCoy & Brown.

No really I wasn't taking it the wrong way. I'm saying there is such a thing as overcoached, but I'm not saying the Carrs overcoach. People may think that the Carrs overcoach because of their enthusiasm during the match. I'm saying it's not how a coach says something during a match (obviously the Carrs tend to get excited), it's what they're actually saying and when they say it. In reality I don't believe the Carrs overcoach. I've listened to what they say and when they give instructions during a match and obviously they know what to say and when to say something. If you want to hear such a thing as overcoaching, the next time you're at a tournament, sit by a mat and listen to some of the younger, more inexperienced coaches (some veterans do it as well), especially in a close match. They're all over the place with the instructions they give and say things at the most inappropriate times. You may have thought I was dogging the Carrs, but I wasn't at all. Every post I have made on this thread has said they are great coaches. Also as far everyone saying Parks may have been the head coach, but the Carrs were the driving force behind the program, I don't want to hear any of you say 'well Rusty Parks was national coach of the year' back in whatever year it was because by some of your statements, he wasn't worthy of that title. How can you be national coach of the year and not even be the best coach on your staff? There is way more to coaching than just the field or the mat. I think that is becoming apparent in the Woodford program. Parks did a great job of bringing it all together. Although a 2nd, 3rd & 6th place finish is nothing to be ashamed of, I see Woodford maybe even finishing lower than 6th next year with the "shoe-in" Courtney gone and no one considered the favorite to win their weight class next year (Travis K, Logsdon & Gentry have great chances, but they're not the favorites) Now back to your comment of being an "ill informed Indiana wrestling god". I never said I was a great wrestler (I was decent, not great). I just said I was a part of a few successful teams in my time just as you may not have been a successful wrestler in your day, but was apparently part of a few of Woodford's state titles. Please don't feel threatened by my posting anything about Woodford County other than praise. I've tried to mention as little as Mater Dei as possible on this thread. I only used them to illustrate my point because you're absolutely right, this is Kentucky wrestling. That's why I have tried to make this as much about great coaches in KENTUCKY as possible. You're the one that keeps trying to throw things back at me such as "This is Kentucky wrestling, no one cares about Indiana or Mater Dei" and "ill informed INDIANA wrestling god". I think someone is feeling insecure or threatened. Like I said before, you guys are still the top dogs in Kentucky wrestling history and as far as I know, Evansville is in no danger of being made part of the Commonwealth so Mater Dei won't be competing in the KHSAA anytime soon. Anyway, to get back on the topic, my vote since I'm close to Louisville goes to Chuck Anderson. Just about every year he has Seneca in the top 10-12 at state. The only difference between he and the rest of the coaches in the top 10-12 is the fact that he does it without the benefit of a middle school feeder program. He takes what he is given and in 4 years turns many of his kids into state placers, if not legitimate individual state champion contenders. I know Trinity doesn't have a direct middle school feeder program, and not to take anything away from Coach Brown, but they have benefited from the Fern Creek youth program especially this year. Speaking of Coach Brown, even though this is his 1st year as a head coach, I think he is a coach who will eventually make his mark on Kentucky wrestling. I guess since he won a state title in his 1st year, people could say that he was the driving force behind Trinity's program the last few year, not Coach Rudolph. Just kidding although he was a huge part of it.

Alright, somewhere in between your head and your fingers typing, you seemed to have misunderstood what I was saying. It happens so I'll forgive you. My point was not to boast of Mater Dei's titles in Indiana. I believe your original post said something to the effect of (this is just a paraphrase), 'it's nonsense for anyone to say there is such a thing as overcoaching. To anyone who says that, how many state team titles do you have' or at least something along those lines. I was simply stating that I have been a part of a few state team titles in my time for a school that is just as accomplished as Woodford and in a much tougher wrestling state so it's nonsense to say anyone who believes there is such a thing as overcoaching must not be "accomplished" or I guess just plain ignorant. As far as this being Kentuckywrestling.com, you're right, at least that what the browser says at the top of my screen. I would never have known that if you hadn't corrected me. Must be the 13 state titles that made you realize that (That was spiteful). I never mentioned any Indiana coaches, I only mentioned other Kentucky coaches that I thought were successful and had not won a state team title to show that great coaches don't necessarily have to have a team title to be considered great or justify if they "overcoach" or not. The coaches I also mentioned as not having a state team title also had different coaching styles so I was using them to illustrate that it's not the style of coaching that determines if a coach "overcoaches", it's what they say and when they say it, not necessarily how they say it. Acutally come to think of it, the Carrs have not won any team titles as head coaches either so throw them on the list of great coaches never to have won a state team title. Yes, they are obviously great coaches, but Rusty Parks was the head coach when Woodford won all of their recent titles, not the Carrs. I didn't mean to challenge your Woodford manhood or your "alpha male wrestling" status in this state so take a deep breath & relax. You guys are still the top dogs in Kentucky wrestling history. Congratulations!!

I guess my ultimate point is that different coaches have different coaching styles. One isn't necessarily better than the other. If a coach can teach his kids or motivate them by yelling, that's great. If a coach can teach his kids or motivate them by having a softer, more relaxed tone, then that's great as well. You can't simply justify someone's coaching ability or coaching style based on how many state championships they've won. Championships look great on a coaching resume' and they're what everybody who competes in a given sport should strive for, but just because they have or haven't won a state championship doesn't mean they can or can't coach! To me, having a "yelling" style of coaching doesn't necessarily mean you "overcoach" just like having a gentler, more relaxed style of coaching doesn't mean you're a great coach. What a coach is actually saying and when they say it during a match is what determines whether or not a coach can overdo it not necessarily their coaching demeanor or state titles under their belt. I'll give an example for everyone. I live in the Louisville area and even though it's a different sport, I'll give an example of a local football coach. Ty Scroggins coaches at Central. He has led Central to 2 state titles the past 2 years, which by the way, were his 1st 2 years coaching at the school. Before that he coached at Doss. At Doss I don't think he won more than 1 playoff game in a given year. His coaching style hasn't changed a bit, but now because he has won 2 titles, does that make him a great coach or justify whatever coaching style he has? If you say winning 2 state titles now makes him a great coach or justifies his style of coaching, then you have to consider him to have been a great coach when he was at Doss and barely finishing over .500 because his coaching style didn't change. That's all I'm trying to say.

You know I honestly apologize if my last post seemed spiteful. I didn't mean anything negative towards the Woodford coaching staff at all. The Carrs are great coaches, very knowledgable of the sport and yes they are known nationwide, but trying to throw out how many state championships a school has won in order to justify whether or not a coach is great or if they "overcoach" to me, is just plain ridiculous. I'm fairly new to high school wrestling in Kentucky, but to my knowledge coaches like Phil Coombs, Chuck Anderson, Gary Canter and Tim Ruschell have not led a team to a state championship and would I say they should be considered as some of the best coaches in the state. I think most everyone would agree with me on that one. The coaches who overcoach tend to be the younger, newer coaches. Sometimes they tend to forget they in the corner now and not on the mat. They get pretty intense. I can't limit it to just the younger coaches, but they tend to be the ones I notice the most. Woodford has actually won more state titles than Mater Dei. We've only won 12 in our school's history (I think Woodford has 13), but I'd put our 12 against their 13 any day. I mean no offense to the Woodford fans, coaches and wrestlers by that either, but give me a break.

I think some coaches tend to overcoach a little. It's not necessarily a bad thing, but it can be. Sometimes you can't even understand what they're saying they hollar so much. None of the coaches I've had personally, but I've definitely seen them. Anyway, Kentucky10, I guess I'm one of those guys who say some coaches can overcoach. Oh, and by the way, I wrestled at Mater Dei in Indiana in the early '90s. I'd be more than happy to compare our state titles to Woodford's any day if you would like to continue that debate.

I don't the exact details of this situation, but do know a little bit about what happened. I won't speak of what I don't know. I don't believe Coach Fiser knew of any previous misbehavior, but can't say for sure. I don't know how severe the situation really was, but I do know Coach Fiser did take action towards one of the supposed harrassers mentioned. It included the dismissal of a wrestler from the team and if everyone thinks about it, you could figure it out real easily. The whole situation regardless of how minor or major it may have been is very unfortunate for all involved. Yes we all know this kind of thing happens. I played college football for 4 years and can tell you some of the things that happen were just plain brutal. I once saw a freshman get beaten with an endzone pile-on so bad he sustained a concussion. Those things have metal rings in the bottom of them. All just for causing the team an extra suicide during conditioning. There is no place for harrassment or abuse. I understand a little horseplay from time to time as long as it does not get physical and all of the parties involved are willing participants, but not any type of physical abuse. I would be inclined to believe from simply knowing about locker room banter that something happened, but not to the extent that it has been made out to be. Again, that is just intuition, not carnal knowledge. I hope everything works out for all that are involved.

Yes, like thegreatgatsby said, the alternates do go. The HWT you were referring to from last year was Adam Burdin from Ohio County.

Cosgrove pinned Guiler at the Dragon Invitational the only time they met this year. This time around it will definitely be a better match up providing they both move on to the 2nd round which they should.

Jones & Kelly are on the same side of the 189 bracket as well.

Looks like Zarth is the one on the same side of the bracket as Martin & Carr. Great draw for Ethan Miller. I almost forgot about Bryan Daniels as well. He is on the other side of the bracket as Martin, Carr & Zarth & on the same side as Ethan Miller.

I haven't really looked at the random draw, but if Martin & Carr are on the same side of the bracket, that means either Ethan Miller or Matt Zarth are on the same side with them. That would also mean either Miller or Zarth stay away from the other 3 until the finals. Good/Bad draw for either Miller or Zarth.

No offense taken.

It's on the khsaa website. I think it is $5 for each session or you can order an all sessions pass in advance for $21 I think. I'm not quite for sure, but like I said, it's on the website.

Okay thanks. I was just curious. Now back on topic for Mr. Clean.